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Posted by Dave D on 12/30/05 23:19
"name" <dohduhdah@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1135964798.525946.170890@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dave D wrote:
>> "Sarge" <not@home.com> wrote in message
>> news:6JZsf.6739$oW.486@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>> > "Dave D" <dave_d@dave_d.com> wrote in
>> > news:doGdnScszpFHyizenZ2dnUVZ8t2dnZ2d@pipex.net:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> A levy on P2P use is the only fair solution AFAICS. An internet tax is
>> >> too general.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Dave,
>> >
>> > You have all valid, intelligent points backup up with great examples
>> > and
>> > analogies. I agree that a P2P tax is a fair solution. But how is it
>> > possible for an ISP to prevent the non-P2P accounts from file sharing?
>> >
>> > You said something about blocking/allowing certain ports, etc. Can't
>> > P2P
>> > applications and file sharing communities use whatever port(s) they
>> > want?
>> >
>>
>> Good point.
>>
>> There's currently no perfect way for an ISP to easily assess whether a
>> subscriber is using P2P or not. However, there are ways to do it, and
>> ISPs
>> have managed in the past. They look for activity outside the usual ports,
>> ie
>> port 80, news and mail ports etc, and monitor upload patterns. Heavy or
>> persistant uploading can be investigated, and action taken if necessary.
>
> You talk about p2p sharing as if p2p sharing amounts to copyright
> infringement.
I said heavy upload patterns could be 'investigated', IOW the data could be
analysed for copyright infringement. Also, if you care to read the text I
was replying to you'd see that I was answering a question about how an ISP
can detect P2P usage on a non P2P tariff. Copyright infringement was
irrelevent to the point.
>It does not.
For about 90-odd percent of users, I bet it does. Do you dispute this?
>Just because many people use p2p programs to
> infringe copyrights, that doesn't mean that anyone using p2p programs
> is necessarily infringing copyrights.
You are digressing again here, my post was not about whether or not all P2P
is copyright infringing. Once again, it's about how ISPs detect whether a
client is using P2P on a non-P2P tariff.
If we must get back to this subject- The question is, is that legal group a
significant number? You're the one who thought taxing *all* internet users
was the way to go, now if even a small number people are unfairly taxed for
using a medium widely associated with piracy you're up in arms about it! I
can't work out where you are on this.
> An ISP should be concerned with copyright infringement and not p2p
> sharing.
>
Say what you want, the *vast* majority of P2P is copyright infringing. Take
away the illegal use and few people would bother with P2P.
>>
>> All that is needed is legislation to be put in place to enforce stiff
>> penalties for 'dishonest' users who try and get away with P2P use on the
>> cheaper tariff, and intelligent monitoring of usage patterns. I think the
>> vast majority of P2P'ers will opt to do it legally *provided* the higher
>> tariff is fair and not extortionate. There will be a few 'hardcore' types
>> who try their luck and fiddle the system, but they should be easy to
>> spot.
>>
>> It might sound an impossible task to spot P2P users, but ask any ISP
>> network
>> techie and they'll tell you P2P usage patterns stand out from 'normal'
>> web
>> use. Intelligent, automated systems could make it easier- they could flag
>> heavy/distinct usage patterns for further human investigation.
>>
>> Dave
>
> P2p sharing is not the issue. Copyright infringement is. Copyright
> infringement is not
> limited to p2p sharing and p2p sharing does not amount to copyright
> infringement.
In the real world, to all intents and purposes it does. I seriously doubt
legal P2P use is a significant part.
> There should be a levy imposed on copyright infringement and not on p2p
> sharing,
> blank media or internet use in general.
>
Wow, talk about flip-flopping! Taxing general internet use was *your* idea,
remember?
As you pointed out, it's not possible to only hit copyright infringers
without affecting any legitimate users, but hitting the most popular
distribution system, P2P, is the next best thing IMO.
Dave
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