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Posted by Krazy Kanuck on 04/17/06 18:27
>
>>"Krazy Kanuck" <limbery@removethisaccesscomm.ca> wrote in message
>>news:4437dd4f$1@news.accesscomm.ca...
>>> Hi I'm offering to cover a dance show (which I had done a couple of
>>> years
>>> ago) and I'm wondering what to charge that would be
>>> reasonable....previously, I did the show for $150 and edited, and
>>> produced
>>> burnt DVDs that I charged an additional $10 for including the cases,
>>> lables, and inserts.....
>>> This time, I offered to do either
>>> 1. taping and editing and doing the DVDs for $200 plus $15 for each DVD
>>> (they sell between 25 and 50 copies)
>>> or
>>> 2. $500 for taping and editing and producing one copy of a burnt DVD and
>>> they can do all their own copying, and packaging themselves....
>>>
>>> ....I thought that the first time, I wasn't making much considering the
>>> work and I think that since they were very pleased with the job I did
>>> that
>>> time, I wouldn't be out of line raising my prices a bit....(I've also
>>> got
>>> a better camera now, as well as two camera editing capablitities)
>>> Any comments or other suggestions?
>>> Len
>>
>>
>>You are underpricing your services by a huge amount. This is not a
>>"small"
>>production. Unless, of course, you approach it as a "small" production.
>>Then, of course, it will have a "small" production look to it. That may
>>be
>>exactly what the client wants. But...
>>
>>Figure...pre-production costs: How much time did you spend on-site doing
>>a
>>site check? Surely you did this. That's an hour, minimum. Any time
>>spent
>>planning the shots? An hour? More? Did you attend any of the rehearsals
>>to rehearse your shots, and to check out the best camera angles for the
>>various different things happening on stage? This should all be included
>>in
>>your costs that you pass on to the client.
I don't need a site check as I only do jobs with acceptable sound and
lighting....I would be doing the final setup and what would be construed as
a site check at the rehearsal and, yes this is about 2 hrs. time.
>>
>>Figure...production costs: How long was the show? 2 hours? If, so you
>>gotta figure about six hours of production cost. Most pros charge a "day
>>rate." It should be based on the amount of equipment you're making
>>available. One camera? Two? Three? Were there other shooters involved?
Just me with 2 close cameras...one stationary at a long shot to include
everything and one to be zooming/panning....only me doing everything....
>>Their hourly rates should be built into what you charge? What about
>>lighting? Sound? All of this adds up; you can't just give it away.
Lighting and sound are all their dept.....If it's no good, that's their
problem and why the video might be below standard....I've made that clear to
them that the final quality will only be as good as what they provide me to
work with....
Factor
>>in the setup and breakdown time. You don't just wiggle your nose and have
>>all the cameras, lights and sound equipment magically show up on cue.
>>
Yes I do....I'm pretty good at quick setup and tear down....This ain't "Ben
Hur"!<G>
>>Figure...post-production costs: With a 2-hour show, how much time will it
>>take to edit the thing into usable form? Surely you're not just dubbing
>>the
>>raw, unedited footage shot from 1, 2 or 3 cameras to tape (or hard drive)
>>and expecting anyone to want to watch it in its unedited state, so you're
>>likely going to edit it in some way. If you shot with just one camera, on
>>a
>>2-hour show, that's at least 2-hours of logging and/or digitizing the
>>footage (bringing it into your computer). Multiply that time spent
>>digitizing by the number of cameras you shot with. 2 hours of footage
>>recorded on each of 3 cameras will take a minumum of six hours to log
>>and/or
>>digitize. How long to edit? The rule of thumb (not an exact science,
>>mind
>>you) is to figure about an hour of editing time per finished minute of
>>video
>>if you're doing your job properly. Any schmuck can leave shots on the
>>screen for 30-seconds or a minute at a time, but if you're actually
>>editing
>>this into a form that adheres to modern acceptable editing techniques,
>>there'll be plenty of edits (fast cuts, never leaving any shot on screen
>>for
>>more than a few seconds).
Give me a break here....This isn't a music video....Yes they want pretty
much minimal editing with each performance almost intact....I might be
cutting between cameras a few times but they've expressly asked for a
WYSIWYG product....That's why my price is so low....I'm factoring about 8hr.
capture and editing...
Are you creating any graphics for use in the
>>final production? Animating any of those graphics? That stuff takes
>>time.
>>If the show ends up being 60 minutes in finished, edited form, you may
>>have
>>spent somewhere in the area of 50-60 hours (give or take) on EDITING
>>ALONE!!! Maybe more. And finally, there is the step that includes
>>exporting the final edited sequence and authoring a nice looking DVD,
>>something that could easily take half a day (or more) once you factor in
>>the
>>building of graphics for motion menus, etc.
Any titles and graphic I might be added, I've already got
pre-done....Nothing fancy just getting the info on screen in a simple but
attractive way.....I've done this before with the same time frame and same
type of show to an authored DVD in a total of 12hrs.
>>
>>You see where I'm going with this?
But with all the video
>>producer wannabes (anybody with a camera an video editing software who
>>thinks they're now equipped to do video production for a living)
>>short-changing themselves like you're proposing to do, it drives down the
>>cost of this stuff, and in the process, it hurts everyone in the video
>>business.
>>
>>Stop and think about what it is you're doing. If every Tom, Dick and
>>Harry
>>with a camcorder knew how to do this on their own, they would. But
>>customers hire people like us to do this stuff because WE KNOW WHAT WE'RE
>>DOING. There's VALUE in that!!! NEVER FORGET THAT!!! Customers EXPECT
>>to
>>pay for our expertise. Otherwise, they'd turn to their good ol' Uncle
>>Charlie to do it for them.
Yes the above is true to a point....I'm not a guy with a camcorder and
editing program who wants to do it for a living....I'm a serious hobbyist
who does a bit as a sideline. I know what I'm doing for small productions
that I know I can handle....I don't try to take on something more. and the
people who have hired me are very pleased that I've come back and agreed to
do their (non-profit BTW) show again this year.....Last year they had an
"uncle Charlie" with a camcorder and of course they weren't happy with the
product....I had also refused to do the project last year due to an
unacceptable venue....I told them that they wouldn't get a good video in a
church basement with flourecant lighting and a poor sound system.....That's
why I insist that I approve of the location if I'm doing their project....
>>The job you described is a $5,000 job, minimum. I probably wouldn't
>>consider doing it for less than $7,000. And if they wanted 3 cameras
>>(which
>>I would strongly urge them to do), it's probably a $10,000 job.
>>
>>Can they get it done for less than that? Obviously, yes.
>>
>>Make mine curly fries.
>
> Do you want an apple pie wit dat?
>
> Congratulations for speaking up Randy!
> I love these people who want to work for these el cheapo prices and in
> the process destroy a business that is already hard to make money at
> :-(
>>
>>Randy
> Bob Ford
> Images In Motion
> www.imagesinmotion.com
I'm not destroying any business.....These guys wouldn't have it done at all
at anywhere near the prices you guys are throwing out....Perhaps I didn't
explain the miniscule size of the non-profit organization that puts this
show on each year....It's all volunteer labour exept for the location
rental, sound and lighing, and the videographer....I think the photographer
does it for a token fee too....(Last time he emailed me what he picked as
the top 20 photos to be included in the video as well)
Anyway, it looks like I'm doing the job next weekend and I'm sure it will go
well.
Len
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