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Posted by Max Haltermann on 12/16/06 11:23
"Little Red Hen" <whodunnit@mysteryl.com> wrote in message
news:RMLgh.9042$HU.92@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
>>>>>>>> Max Haltermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When I make a DVD from a Winfast2000H DTVcapture card
>>>>>>>>> the playback from a stand alone DVD player to a 68cm 4:3 TV is
>>>>>>>>> about 20%
>>>>>>>>> smaller than the TV's screen. [i.e., there
>>>>>>>>> all black borders on all sides of the picture]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> How does the original captured signal look on a computer? Does it
>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>> have the black bars there? (Is the original signal in 12P16
>>>>>>>> format?) Yes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the pointer re aspect ratio terms.
>>>>>>> As I wrote in my first posting, the transmitted signal of all local
>>>>>>> DTV
>>>>>>> stations has 4:3 images embedded in a 16:9 transmission. Format
>>>>>>> 12P16
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> VideoRedo File info says 16:9 and image 720:576 (normal PAL format).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This makes sense for the DTV stations, as this way they provide both
>>>>>>> main
>>>>>>> aspect ratios for the end user. The end user selects 4:3 or 16:9 on
>>>>>>> the set top
>>>>>>> box this, as I see it, sets the correct parameters for the DIGITAL
>>>>>>> TO ANALOG DECODER.
>>>>>>> In other words, the analog image in the right format and dimensions
>>>>>>> for display on a TV screen is created outside the digital
>>>>>>> environment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So the question still is: How can one get a full hight and full
>>>>>>> width 4:3 display from
>>>>>>> the raw digital TV transmissions on to DVD or onto a TV screen,
>>>>>>> seeing there is no D/A conversion or decoding involved?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Max.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See here for an explanation of the formats and their names:
>>>>>>>> <http://google.com/groups?selm=a96fma$kj6$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> znark
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Max I assume you have a 4:3 TV or Monitor? Either way in making a DVD
>>>>>> you need to change the flag in the ifo files to tell the DVD player
>>>>>> to present a full screen presentation during playback. If the ifo
>>>>>> file has letterbox ticked as well as pan an scan you will get the
>>>>>> so-called postage stamp view., ie black all around the 4:3 image. My
>>>>>> friend has the same card as you and I have the Dvico HDTV card and
>>>>>> my Topfield PVR5000. Al I do is edit the captured file and then make
>>>>>> a DVD (to harddisk) then edit the ifo files and then burn using Nero.
>>>>>> As I said in my other post it takes all of 20 seconds to make the
>>>>>> edit in IFOEdit. Then all my DVD's ex Oz DTV that are 4:3 aspect
>>>>>> ratio playback full screen on my 4:3 TV with no black borders and
>>>>>> full vertical screen with black bars either side on my 16:9 LCD.
>>>>>> Just like a bought one!!!!!
>>>>> That would be beaut if it worked in my case!!!
>>>>> I got IFOEdit, ran it fiddled with it, said duhh a few times, (I'm 72
>>>>> and battling a bit
>>>>> with HiTec). Anyway eventually I found the lines of text in the
>>>>> IFOedit display, which, when clicked on, produced this window in which
>>>>> the settings can be altered.
>>>>> After some drama I got those files to look as below:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) VIDEO_TS.IFO file:
>>>>>
>>>>> Video Manager Menu attributes:
>>>>> video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (4:3) (pan-scan)
>>>>> Title set 1:
>>>>> VTS_1 Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (4:3) (pan-scan)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) VTS_01_0.IFO file:
>>>>>
>>>>> Title set (Movie) attributes:
>>>>> Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (4:3) (pan-scan)
>>>>>
>>>>> Only thing wrong with this is, that the movie even on the pc monitor
>>>>> still does not
>>>>> reach edge to edge, instead it has a thick black border all around.
>>>>> I don't like to give up but?????????
>>>>>
>>>>> Max.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Something is not right there Max, the frame size should be 16:9 as
>>>> Australian DTV for ALL transmissions are 16:9 regardless of content.,
>>>> the stations don't transmit aspect ratio flags.
>>>> So if 4:3 is ticked instead of 16:9 in IFOEdit that is probably the
>>>> cause of the problem unless there is something you may have selected in
>>>> your editing program to edit the mpeg file off the TV card.
>>>>
>>>> Take another look in IFOEdit and change any instances of 4:3 to 16:9
>>>> (doesn't matter for the menu attributes) but make sure the video info
>>>> is PAL and 16:9.
>>>>
>>>> What pan and scan in the ifo file is to tell the DVD player to expand
>>>> the image to fit the 4:3 TV you have so what this means in effect the
>>>> side black bars 'fall off the screen' and you have a fullscreen 4:3
>>>> image.
>>>> On the Topfield 5000 there is a button that is called centre cut that
>>>> does the same thing on live transmissions as indeed most STB's.
>>>>
>>>> an example from a SBS Doco, actual film 4:3
>>>>
>>>> Video: MPEG-2 720x576 (PAL) (PAL 625/50) (16:9) (pan-scan)
>>>
>>> This had to be it! Well maybe, but not quite.
>>> Getting into IFOEdit once more I got it to display exactly as per your
>>> sample above.
>>> The monitor screen image still looked wrong though. So I burned to
>>> RW-DVD and tested on the player and TV.
>>>
>>> Set to 16:9 the image was just as before: black border all four sides.
>>> Image in correct proportion.
>>> 4:3 and 4:3 letterbox image is far too wide but with top and bottom
>>> having thick black bar.
>>>
>>> Just to ensure my test dvd file isn't corrupted I will capture a new
>>> lot,
>>> SBS2 is mostly 4:3 transmission, and go through all again.
>>> Wish me luck, please.
>>>
>>> Max.
>>> P.S. Any possibility of a conventional handle like Bob or Pete or Max?
>>>
>> Ewen will do just fine
Hi Ewen,
> Is this the model you have?
> http://www.leadtek.com.tw/eng/tv_tuner/overview.asp?lineid=6&pronameid=252
>
Yes, that's the one.
> Are you sure you are recording from the digital tuner and not the analog
> tuner?
Most definitely. SBS2 is very difficult to capture with an analog tuner :)
And for a change I have got good news. :))
The fresh capture gave exactly the same result, but after editing
VTS_01_0.IFO
as you suggested the DVD-RW burned had full screen display.
As to early problem movie I joined all VOB files, as I didn't have the
original
any more. Processed it to DVD folder, edited IFO files and got a somewhat
wide image with black bar top and bottom. Vertically slightly squashed, but
far better than the tiny image I had before.
So thanks, Ewen. Also thanks to znark and Jukka Aho
(I hope I got that right)
There is of course still the question of 'Direct Burn to DVD'
I think the software is lacking there by not allowing to set 4:3 burns.
After all there would only need to be one box to be ticked to set a flag
to ensure Pan-Scan in the IFO file is ON.
As it is now, I would have a good case to return the card because of
incorrect advertizing, after all on the box it just says:
"Direct Burn: Capture video directly from TV signal or external video
devices - saving both time and valuable Hard-drive space."
There is no mention of only a rather small picture when capturing
4:3 movies.
I exchanged 3 emails with Leadtek, where I suggested there should
be a software solution. Their answer was basically over and over, that
their software capture files as they are transmitted and that is that.
Cheers all,
Max.
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