Posted by Frank on 12/24/74 11:28

On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 14:08:55 +0100, in 'rec.video.desktop',
in article <Re: Cannot erase DVD-RW>,
Terry Pinnell <terrypin@dial.pipex.com> wrote:


>>I hope that Terry reads this, because it may just be what's happening
>>to him, although I'd still like to see the results of an IsoBuster
>>Surface Scan.
>
>Yes, still reading every reply I get studiously thanks Frank!
>
>I only got around to doing the first surface scan this morning (it's
>lunchtime here now) as I was unsure which of my 10 DVD-RW discs would
>be the best initial candidate. I chose #9, which was unplayable on
>both lounge DVD player and PC with PowerDVD. Nero Info says "Open. Not
>finalized." At the end of the (long) scan I got this:
>---------
>[DVD-RW:RITEK000V11A]
>
>Number of errors encountered on the disc : 2297888

In my opinion, this disc looks like a candidate for the trash can,
sorry to say, although I don't use packet writing (Nero InCD).

>This is a packet written disc. Errors are not abnormal on this disc.
>To see if files are affected, look for the 'error' icon next to files
>or :
>Select a File System of your choice and select :
>
>List files with read errors (in Edit Window)
>---------
>
>I don't see how to do implement that last instruction? Can't see an
>'Edit' window anywhere...

I know, it's a little confusing. Also, I'm using a registered paid
version of the program and you are, I assume, using the unregistered
free version and I'm not certain of all of the differences between the
two, but I believe that if you go in to view individual sectors on the
disc, that's the "Edit Window" to which the message is referring.

>(Mind you, not sure 2.3M errors would make
>pleasant reading!)

Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've *never* encountered a disc with
that number of errors, ever.

>The IsoBuster Help says
>"The list with erroneous files can always be recreated without the
>necessity to redo the scan. Just select the File System icon and
>create the list via 'Directory tree and file information' "
>But how do I reach that? All I see in the left pane (when expanded)
>is:
>DVD-RW
> Open Session 1
> Track 01

It's talking, I believe, about the program's ability to save the error
list as a text file on your hard disk for possible future reference,
thus avoiding the need to re-scan the disc again in the future.
Personally, I'm willing to take the extra time and let it re-scan, so
I never save the information.

>So where is 'Directory tree and file information' please?

Try right-clicking on *everything* in the user interface. IsoBuster is
one of those programs which just loves the right mouse button, so much
so, in fact, that if I spend some time in IsoBuster and then switch to
another, more conventionally-written application, I have to
consciously remind myself that right-clicking on anything in sight
won't necessarily bring up a context menu. :)

>Anyway, is that huge number of errors the likely cause of my problems
>with that *particular* disc?

I would be inclined to believe that, yes. It's not impossible, you
know, that you were simply unfortunate enough to get a bad batch of
discs--or even ones which simply don't play well with your particular
drive and/or your drive's firmware level. In fact, it might be useful
to Google your drive's make and model and see if any firmware updates
are available for it. It certainly wouldn't be the first time that a
firmware update has fixed problems like this.

>Does this tell me anything about *how*
>these errors got onto the disc?

Not that I can see, no, but I don't claim to be a DVD-RW burning
expert, either.

>Of course, I wasn't being as
>methodical 2 days ago as I'm trying to be now, but I *think* all I did
>on it was use Nero Express to 'Erase disc'.
>
>Although it ties up the drive for so long, maybe I should now do
>another surface scan with a 'good' identical disc?

I would definitely do that, yes. Personally, for important work, I do
an IsoBuster Surface Scan right after I burn a disc.

>>I would also suggest to Terry that he disable any active anti-virus
>>software that may be running in the background on his system, at least
>>when he's burning DVDs. He can always re-enable it when he's done
>>burning. This is in addition to the recommendation that I made
>>previously with regard to disabling of InCD at system startup,
>>assuming that he's not doing any packet writing.
>
>Thanks, have now done both those before further tests.

As long as you can trust yourself to always remember to re-enable the
anti-virus software afterwards, I would recommend that you always
disable it prior to working with any video-related projects.

>>I'm also, based upon his latest posts, wondering whether he's burning
>>his DVD-RW discs in DVD-ROM (data) format or DVD-Video format.
>
>This is a murky area for me, so please bear with me! I've been doing
>*both*, and perhaps that's causing or at least contributing to my
>problems? Basically, I've been repeating operations from a very
>limited repertoire:
>
>1. In Nero Express: Erase disc.
>That doesn't ask me what is on the disc, what I want to do with it, or
>anything else. I'm assuming it should simply do what it says on the
>can: ERASE everything, so that I have an empty, spanking new DVD-RW to
>work on?
>
>2. In Nero Express: Burn a single data file.
>This was chosen for maximum speed and simplicity
>
>3. In my DVD 'authoring' program, MemoriesOnTV: Either create a video
>and store it on HD (VOB etc), or do that and also burn it to DVD.
>That was the source of the content on most of the DVD-RWs I tried to
>Erase. In fact, on first trying to burn from MoT onto an existing
>video, there is always a message asking if I want to erase the disc
>first. Every time I did so on those I tried, it failed and aborted.
>That's why I turned to Nero Express to erase - and that failed too.
>One other complication I'll mention in case it's relevant is that Mot
>offers an option on burning to 'Use Nero Drivers'. I'm unable to be
>sure for all discs which did use that. I can say that the last couple
>I did for tests (just making a 'movie' from a single JPG) were with
>the proprietary MoT drivers.

In my opinion, it's *really* important to choose the correct sort of
formatting when working with any recordable (-R or +R) or re-writable
(-RW or +RW) optical media. If you were burning a CD-R disc, for
example, the two most commonly used formats would be as a data
(CD-ROM) disc or as a Redbook audio CD (CDDA). There's a world of
difference between the two formats. With burnable DVD formats, you
have similar choices to make.

Burn in DVD-Video format, for example, if your intent is to create a
disc which is to be played back in a televison-set-attached DVD player
(in which case you'll need to have authored the disc prior to burning
it and the disc will have a VIDEO_TS folder containing .vob and other
special file types). Burn in DVD-ROM (data) format when you simply
want to put files, of whatever type (.avi, .mpg, .wav, .mp3, .pdf,
..doc. gif, .jpg, .txt, etc.), on the disc for use in a
computer-attached DVD drive.

Maybe it will help to think of the DVD-Video formatted disc as the
video equivalent of a Redbook audio CD and the DVD-ROM data-formatted
DVD disc as the functional equivalent (but with greater storage
capacity) of the CD-ROM disc.

And let's not even mention the -VR and +VR formats, please, where you
can perform limited re-authoring of the disc, or the DVD-Audio or SACD
formats with LPCM or DSD encoded to MLP. Or those little mini-discs
used in some low-end consumer camcorders which sometimes record MPEG-2
and sometimes, I believe, record some flavor of MPEG-4 video. Then
there's single layer and double (dual) layer and single-sided and
double-sided. Then we have the different file systems used on DVDs --
ISO 9660 and UDF, the latter of which comes in multiple versions.
Let's not forget DVD-RAM. And then there's single session versus
multi-session, the latter of which is what you want to use on
re-writable DVD media when you plan to came along later and add to or
delete from an existing compilation or erase and start over with a new
compilation.

And whatever happened to DVD-18 discs? If they were ever widely used,
we wouldn't need HD DVD discs or Blu-ray Discs (BD) to store high-def
video content, assuming MPEG-4 Part 10 AVC H.264 (or VC-1) encoding.

(Sorry for the rambling.)

A review of the DVD Demystified DVD FAQ should help - just be sure to
set aside an evening to digest all of the information. :)

DVD FAQ
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html

--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/

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