Posted by Terry Pinnell on 12/24/33 11:28

Frank <frank@nojunkmail.humanvalues.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 05 Oct 2005 20:59:09 +0100, in 'rec.video.desktop',
>in article <Re: Cannot erase DVD-RW>,
>Terry Pinnell <terrypin@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>>FWIW, here's a summary of the methodical tests I did with 10 identical
>>brand DVD-RW discs, numbered #1 to #10.
>
>I've been looking forward to this...

Ditto here for your replies <g>.

>>#1 BAD
>>Contents = Short MPG movie (video/audio)
>>Lounge DVD player? NO
>>PC PowerDVD? NO
>>IsoBuster displays: Open Session 1
>>Track 01 0 4.38 GB
>>Surface scan initial message: "This is a packet written disc. Errors
>>are not abnormal..."
>>Surface scan results: About 48,000 errors when canceled at 2%
>
>Bad disc. Scrap it.

OK, done.

>And stop using packet writing, please.

You've jumped straight up to a technical level presently beyond me! As
you make this same recommendation several times, could you further
clarify what you mean please? I'm not consciously/deliberately 'using
packet writing', so I need to know how to stop it in practice.

Is packet-writing synonymous with 'UDF'? Which inCD uses in my other
CD0RW drive? (I've removed that disc and stopped inCD for these tests
as you recommended.) But presumably that's not the issue here, and the
implication of those IsoBuster analyses is that my source DVD discs
contain content which has been 'packet written'? If so what in
practical terms can I do about that? Must I abandon my main commercial
program used so far for making my DVD movies, MemoriesOnTV? Even if I
was willing to do that, is there a specific set of programs guaranteed
*not* to use 'packet-writing'? Does Nero Express (and the other Nero
programs apart from inCD) not use it at all?

>>#2 BAD?
>>Contents = MoT movie (video/audio) Family tree
>>Lounge DVD player? YES
>>PC PowerDVD? NO
>>IsoBuster displays: Open Session 1
>>Track 01 0 4.38 GB
>>Surface scan initial message: "This is a packet written disc. Errors
>>are not abnormal..."
>>Surface scan results: About 46,000 errors when canceled at 2%
>>Question: Why can it play in lounge without any apparent flaws?
>
>Bad disc, or at least marginal. Close the session and re-test in
>IsoBuster.

Do you simply mean close and re-open IsoBuster? This term 'session' is
still not one I really grasp. (I'd rather not *have* to grasp it!)

>What sort of player (make and model) do you have in the
>lounge?
Philips DVD757VR (a 'combo', with both DVD and VCR facilities).

>Also, how much drinking do you do in the lounge, as that may
>have a bearing on the results? (Just kidding about the drinking
>question.)

Never a drop before 7am.

>>#3 GOOD?
>>Contents = MoT movie (video/audio) Competa; Les Estables
>>Lounge DVD player? YES
>>PC PowerDVD? YES
>>Surface scan results: [DVD-RW:RITEK000V11A]
>>No physical errors encountered. Your disc is still in good shape.
>
>Sounds like a good disc to me. Would it be correct for me to say that
>this disc ia a) finalized (or was perhaps not multi-session to begin
>with) and b) wasn't packet-written?
>
>>#4 BAD
>>Contents = MoT movie (video/audio) Cologne
>>Lounge DVD player? YES (recheck quality)
>>PC PowerDVD? YES but keeps stopping
>>Surface scan initial message: "This is a packet written disc. Errors
>>are not abnormal..."
>>Surface scan results: Large number, but froze at 93%
>
>Sounds like another bad disc. And stop using packet writing, please.

Disc dumped. See above re packet-writing.


>>#5 BAD
>>Contents = Short MPG movie (video/audio) LED circuit demo
>>Lounge DVD player? NO
>>PC PowerDVD? NO
>>IsoBuster displays: Open Session 1
>>Track 01 0 4.38 GB
>>Surface scan initial message: "This is a packet written disc. Errors
>>are not abnormal..."
>>Surface scan results: 46 errors, but sort of froze at 31%, so
>>unreliable result.
>
>Sounds like another bad disc. And stop using packet writing, please.

Disc dumped. See above re packet-writing.

>>#6 GOOD?
>>Contents = MoT movie (video/audio) Cologne
>>Lounge DVD player? YES
>>PC PowerDVD? YES
>>Surface scan results: [DVD-RW:RITEK000V11A]
>>No physical errors encountered. Your disc is still in good shape.
>
>Looks to me like a good disc.

I've copied it to a Ritek DVD-R 4X, so that I can now risk *treating*
it like a 'good' disc. More on that later.


>>#7 GOOD?
>>Contents = Blank
>>Lounge DVD player? NO
>>PC PowerDVD? NO
>>IsoBuster displays: Track 01
>>0 0.00 KB 0
>>Surface scan results: [DVD-RW:RITEK000V11A]
>>No physical errors encountered. Your disc is still in good shape.
>
>Looks like a good unused disc, or one that was used and then
>successfully erased.

That was my tentative diagnosis too - there's hope for me yet!

>>#8 GOOD
>>Contents = MoT movie (video/audio) Ethan 1st 6 Months
>>Lounge DVD player? YES
>>PC PowerDVD? YES
>>Surface scan results: [DVD-RW:RITEK000V11A]
>>No physical errors encountered. Your disc is still in good shape.
>
>Looks like another good disc. If you want to keep it that way, do not
>attempt to write any additional data to it, although I suspect that it
>didn't begin life as a multi-session disc anyway, but that's just a
>guess.

This is another murky area for me. How can I tell for sure whether it
is a 'multi-session disc'? What *can* I safely do with it?

>>#9 BAD
>>Contents =
>>Lounge DVD player? NO
>>PC PowerDVD? NO
>>IsoBuster displays: Open Session 1
>>Track 01 0 4.38 GB
>>Surface scan initial message: "This is a packet written disc. Errors
>>are not abnormal..."
>>Surface scan results: About 48,000 errors when canceled at 2%
>
>Bad disc, or at least marginal. Close the session and re-test in
>IsoBuster.

Disc dumped. See my query above re 'closing session'.

>>#10 BAD?
>>Contents = MoT movie (video/audio) Italian Holiday (draft 1)
>>Lounge DVD player? YES
>>PC PowerDVD? NO (There's a brief flash of the OLD over-writen menu,
>>not seen on lounge player.)
>>IsoBuster displays: Open Session 1
>>Track 01 0 4.38 GB
>>Surface scan initial message: "This is a packet written disc. Errors
>>are not abnormal..."
>>Surface scan results: (POSTPONED)
>>Question: Why can it play in lounge without any apparent flaws?
>
>It plays in your Lounge DVD player because that player is using
>somewhat different logic than the PowerDVD player program on your PC.
>This isn't much different a situation than the playback
>incompatibilities that one normally encounters when playing burned
>DVD-Video discs on different (telly-attached) set top DVD players.
>
>In summary, although I think that you may have gotten some bad discs
>in your package of ten,

Yes, Ritek seems at best 'middling; and I've seen some reports that
they were downright poor at one time.

>I also think that some of the problems you're
>seeing could have been avoided by finding an author/burn procedure
>which works in your particular setup and sticking to it.

Agreed, but I'm not sure about the practical implications of that?

>Also, I would
>suggest not using packet writing. It's simply not reliable on some
>systems.

Agreed again, but see my earlier request for clarification.

I've just emailed Codejam, developers of MoT (Singapore), to ask them
whether MoT uses packet-writing.

>Also, if you happen to have any other standalone DVD players
>in the house, or any other computers with DVD drives (even if they are
>just DVD-ROM drives and not writers) test all important discs in them
>as well before you consider a given project to be complete and delete
>the original source files.
>
>It's some extra work, but when I have an important DVD-Video disc to
>give to someone, I test it in three different standalone DVD players
>and two different computer DVD drives. Also, I burn two copies of the
>material, one on DVD-R media and another on DVD+R media, to help
>increase the probability that the recipient will be able to
>successfully play the disc, or at least one of them. I also test both
>discs in IsoBuster to ensure that they are error free. I do this in
>two different DVD drives. I test DVD-ROM (data) discs as well, using
>the same procedures as above, except not in standalone DVD players, of
>course.

Many thanks for tutoring me on this. Hope you'll sustain the patience
a while longer <g>.

Unfortunately, I have only the one DVD player, and one DVD-capable PC
in the house. So your exceptional precautions are not possible here.
Given my relatively sparse recording output, not sure I'd want to
invest that *time* anyway to be honest.

It's salutary evidence of the primitive/fragile state of the
technology, don't you think? Imagine the analogous scenario of writing
a letter, say 50 years ago. Appropriate measures might be documented
thus:
1. Use at least 2 typewriters, each with 2 different brands of paper
2. Ensure that 3 people inspect the each of the 4 letters, under the
following forms of illumination
- daylight
- filament lamp light
- fluorescent light
3. When satisfied, make two sets of copies of all 4 letters, and store
one in complete darkness and deposit the other set in your bank.
4. Post the 4 letters in 4 different post-boxes, spread over 2 days.

Although the parallel breaks down on the cost aspect: DVD recording is
just that bit more expensive <g>.

--
Terry, West Sussex, UK

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