Posted by fwd: from Erik on 10/13/05 17:40

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:14:55 +0200, "erik" <erik@somewhere.com> wrote:

>"George Hammond" <ghammond1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:edfsk19od7evmsj731shlfb2qh3db7fls9@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 10:49:37 GMT, George Hammond
>> <ghammond1@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:46:00 +0200, "erik" <erik@somewhere.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>"George Hammond" <ghammond1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:900qk1lvm0emqug9j057e6k3uvdokbj13i@4ax.com...
>>>>> This is a research question.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to make a video which will be "invisble to kids" but
>>>>> "visible to adults".
>>>>>
>>>>> Theory says this is possible because the PFF
>>>>> (picture fusion frequency) of adults is around 15 frames/sec,
>>>>> while the PFF of a 7 year old kid is only 10 frames/sec.
>>>>>
>>>>> OK, I can't use AVI, or MPEG or any kind of
>>>>> "computer video" system because they are too slow
>>>>> and tend to compress frame/rates unpreditably....
>>>>> I have to use good old fashioned VHS tape and
>>>>> play it on a VCR.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> QUESTION:
>>>>>
>>>>> How can I most simply EDIT a VHS tape?
>>>>>
>>>>> What I want to do is take "any ole" average VHS
>>>>> movie tape, and simply REPLACE some frames on
>>>>> it, and then play it on my VCR.
>>>>>
>>>>> How can I most EASILY do this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Specifically, if I have a regular VHS video movie,
>>>>> I wish REPLACE every 3rd,4th,5th,6th
>>>>> frame of the video with "blank" frames
>>>>> (say colored light gray)... so the tape will
>>>>> look like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> 01|02|...|...|...|...|07|08|...|...|...|...|13|14|...|...|...|...|19|20|...|..|...|...|25|26|...|...|...|...|-------etc,etc,etc------>
>>>>>
>>>>> the |...| frames have been REPLACED in the original video
>>>>> with these new "blank" (light gray) frames.
>>>>>
>>>>> HOW CAN I DO THIS.... what type of equipment, computers, VCR's
>>>>> etc do I need to do this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Could a run of the mill commercial video lab alter a VHS tape
>>>>> for me in this specific way?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance, George Hammond
>>>
>>>>I think that trying the "computer" way is worth a shot. You can
>>>>write
>>>>an AviSynth script that would blank the frames and then encode the
>>>>result to mpeg. I think you can even force I frames to be at the
>>>>significant frames.
>>>>
>>>>Erik.
>>>
>>>[Hammond]
>>> Erik.... thanks for responding. I am a physicist, who discovered
>>>this idea, but I know beans about practical video stuff. This idea
>>>has been widely discussed on the physics newsgroups, but none of
>>>them
>>>know anything about practical video matters.
>>> If it works, it may point the way to making "childproof X-rated
>>>entertainment".... think about it... the amount of programming
>>>effected on public t.v. would be enormous. Big bucks!
>>> Of course the idea I'm proposing here is just a "simple
>>> experiment"
>>>to try and find out something about the phenomenon.
>>>
>>> The problem with AVI, MPEG and other "computer" video systems is
>>>that most people (including me) are using old 200, or 400 mc CPU
>>>computers with run of the mill graphics cards... and they are just
>>>too
>>>slow.... they "compress" the frame rates unpredictably.... AVI only
>>>runs at 12 frames/sec on my computer for instance. This will
>>>OBLITERATE the effect which depends on running at
>>>TRUE 30 FRAMES/SEC VIDEO SPEED (like t.v.) !
>>>
>>>As I see it, the only way I can GUARANTEE that the video is actually
>>>running at "true 30 frames/sec" speed is to do the experiment using
>>>VHS video on a VCR.
>>>
>>>CORRECT ME IF I'M WR0NG ABOUT THIS....!!
>>>
>>>Isn't there some way to "edit" a vido on a computer, and then load
>>>it
>>>on to a VHS tape?
>>>
>>>You do see what the problem is, right? I have to be SURE the vido
>>>that I produce is actually running at 30 frames/sec...!
>>>
>>>George Hammond
>>
>> [Hammond]
>> PS:
>>
>> What about these new graphical "video editing" programs I see
>> advertised online in which al lyou have to do is "cut and paste" or
>> "drag and drop" individual frames in the video editor to make an
>> "edited" version of a vieotape or video file. Seems to me that
>> "writing a script" is kind of an old fashioned approach given the
>> proliferation of these new graphical interface video editing
>> programs
>> that are floating around? Some of them are even freeware.
>>
>> George
>>
>
> My idea is to prepare the file AVI or MPEG on a computer with a
>proper framerate and then play it on a DVD top set player. There are
>models that can play DIVX/XVID or ISO MPEGs from CD-R or DVD-ROM. The
>DVD player makes sure the framerate is correct.

[Hammond]
Would this involve burning a CD or DVD ?

> As for available tools, I suggested AviSynth, because it's what I
>use.

[Hammond]
Is AviSynth difficult to learn to use ? Do you have to know how to
write script ?


> I am not a big fan of click-and-drag-and-drop kind of programs.
>But there are sure other ways to build the video the way you need it.

[Hammond]
Right... I'm looking for the shortest distance beetwen here and there.

By the way... what would a video lab charge me to edit a VHS
tape as I've described? It may be easier to find investors than
it is to find freelance technical experts.

> How to transfer the video to VHS tape, video card with TV output?
>Or record it on CD, play it on DVD player and record it on tape.

[Hammond]
Oh... so we're talking either:

1. Video card with t.v. output.
2. CD or DVD burner.

looks like too much equipment.

> As for the idea, I think it will flicker and won't be good for the
>eyes.

[Hammond]
No doubt.... the BIG QUESTION is whether it will be VISIBLE
to adults and INVISBLE to kids.

Flicker can be dealt with later.

> Not mentioning you'll have to do something with the sound, too

[Hammond]
That's been mentioned... will have to be addressed later.
What we are looking for is a "proof of concept" experiment.

E.g. Can you make a video that is VISIBLE to adults, but INVISIBLE to
kids, based on the fact that short (intermittant) frame sequences are
invisble (subliminal) to kids whereas they are visible to adults.

>:) Anyway, have fun!
>Erik.

[Hammond]
Likewise I'm sure.

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