Posted by Jukka Aho on 10/29/06 18:38

Martin Underwood wrote:

> Maybe things are a bit further advanced in Finland since the
> changeover to digital is happening sooner than with us in the UK.
> Here, there are very few TVs or video recorders of any sort which
> include digital tuners: the expectation is that you have to buy a
> separate set-top box.

People generally already own a perfectly watchable tv set - or rather,
several of them - so buying a set-top box (or two, or three) is the
basic assumption here as well. :)

But if you're shopping for a new tv set, for one reason or the other,
the most popular type - or what the salesmen are trying to push,
anyway - is a "HD ready" 1080i LCD flat panel. Many of the available
models are still equipped with an analogue tuner, but lately there has
been a surge of models with integrated DVB-T tuners.

(CRT-based SDTV sets are still available, but they don't seem to get
much display space or exposure on ads any longer. Ads are all about flat
panel tvs these days.)

Finnish households are pretty evenly split between terrestrial and
cable. For all practical purposes, terrestrial and cable are equally
important here. The analogue switchoff concerns cable as well, and the
cable operators must carry FTA terrestrial channels unencrypted in their
networks.

With the above in mind, the fact that the DVB standard employs a
different modulation for terrestrial (DVB-T) and cable (DVB-C)
broadcasts has been somewhat troubling here. Most people would not like
to buy devices such as expensive big-screen tv sets or PVRs that will
only work with one standard or the other. For example, if you buy a tv
set with an integrated DVB-T tuner and later move into a house that has
a cable, you will have to resort to an indoor aerial (which might not
work all that well), or sell your perfectly good set and buy another one
with a correct type of tuner, or buy an additional DVB-C set-top box for
your tv set which already has a DVB tuner/decoder (which is a somewhat
clumsy solution.)

Curiously, manufacturers have plenty of tv sets available with
integrated DVB-T tuners, but there are only two or three models with
integrated DVB-C tuners. Cable subscribers don't like this imbalance at
all. There is one manufacturer/brand (Loewe) that has a hybrid C/T tuner
in their sets, and that's what most people here would want from _all_
manufacturers: hybrid tuners. But as of now, you will have to choose
your equipment based on your reception method.

There is a selection of HDD recorders (PVRs) from a handful of
manufacturers. There are those with DVB-T tuner(s) and those with DVB-C
tuner(s), both single tuner and twin tuner models, and with various size
options for the HDD. There are quite hot right now as people are
beginning to realize the benefits of HDD-based time-shifting.

DVD recorders are also prominently featured in ads and brochures, but
almost all of them still come with analog tuners so only a fool would
buy one right now. (Apparently many fools still do, without realizing
that they won't be all that handy after the ASO has happened.)

As far as the public attitude, awareness, and acceptance goes, pretty
much everyone here (even the elderly) seems to understand that the
change is coming and they can't watch tv the old way any more in the
next September. Some may have misconceptions about the technical
details, such as believing that their old set or aerial won't do any
longer, but people seem to be pretty well-informed about the change in
general. I don't think that there would be many left for whom the next
September will come as a complete surprise. (It will be interesting to
see what kind of show the broadcasters will put on during the last few
weeks of the analogue system, and especially during the last few hours.
I guess there will be countdown DOGs on the analogue channels, and a big
gala show at around midnight, or something.)

It would seem that those who in the past have been vocally against the
digital tv don't any longer hold any high hopes about the analogue
switchoff being postponed to some later date. They're grudgingly
accepting their faith, so to speak. (There's still enough time for the
more populist politicians to stir things up a bit, though, since we're
going to have a parliamentary election in March. I'd be surprised if
postponing the switchoff date isn't brought up at all, but it is very
unlikely that there would be any changes.)

> Sadly there is no control bus to allow the video recorder
> to turn on the set-top box, select the correct channel
> on it, and then turn it off afterwards. Consequently you
> have to program the timed events twice: once on the video
> recorder and then again on the set-top box.

Hmm... but there is. I have written a couple of posts about this before
(see the URL in the latter one):

<http://google.com/groups?selm=WUbag.27$Fs.0@reader1.new
s.jippii.net>

<http://google.com/groups?selm=5unag.458$B82.202@reader
1.news.jippii.net>

> Also, some well-established capabilities of analogue VHS
> recorders, such as the recording of teletext subtitles as
> closed captions (as opposed to being burnt-into the picture)
> and the identification of programmes by title in a tape
> library (picked up from teletext), are not available with
> current set-top boxes. Given that set-top boxes of one sort
> or another have been around for many years, it's surprising
> that they didn't design them to incorporate a simple teletext
> encoder to take subtitles and programme title from the digital
> signal and generate teletext that a VHS recorder can decypher,
> as they can with analogue broadcasts. That way, people's
> existing analogue recorders keep the same functionality with
> digital boradcasts, rather than regressing and losing
> functionality.

DVB supports Teletext, and Finnish channels actually _do_ broadcast
their full Teletext service on DVB, too. Most DVB set-top boxes sold
here come with fimware that will either insert the Teletext data into
the VBI on their analogue outputs (so that you can decode the Teletext
data with an external Teletext decoder, such as the one built into your
old analogue tv set), or contain a built-in Teletext browser themselves.
Or both. See ETSI EN 301 775 ("DVB - Vertical Blanking Information (VBI)
data in DVB bitstreams"):

<http://webapp.etsi.org/action/OP/OP20030523/en_301775v010201o.pdf>

The omission of Teletext from the DVB broadcasts in the UK is, as far as
I can see, mainly a political decision, and has much to do with the
adoption of the MHEG standard as the next generation "Teletext"
platform.

(We actually tried something similar here with MHP, but once it became
obvious that manufacturers are not yet able or willing to produce usable
MHP set-top boxes [there were a couple of tries, but they were unusably
slow], Teletext data stream was added to the DVB broadcasts. MHP is
still there, but its no longer publicly advertised, and the development
of new services is on hold, I think. For the time being, at least. The
local cable operators have indicated some renewed interest in the MHP
platform lately, though so maybe things will advance on that front in
the future.)

> Separate set-top boxes, with the extra faffing around programming
> events twice, may be acceptible to technologically-minded people,
> but the average person (eg my parents) percieves it as "just too
> complicated". Truly integrated TVs and video recorders (or else
> separate decoders than could be controlled by SCART lead from the
> recorder) would solve this problem.

I agree with that, and I've never card for the vision of a TV set
becoming just "a monitor" - as some people wish and believe. An
integrated tuner will always be easier to use than an external box.

As for recording the current DVB broadcasts, I'd just buy a twin-tuner
PVR (HDD recorder), instead of bothering with the VHS VCR. There are
probably two brands worth considering right now on the DVB PVR front:
Topfield and Dreambox. Both allow copying the recorded shows from their
HDD to a computer (for making permanent copies on a DVD, for example.)
On Topfield boxes you must use USB. The Dreambox models have an Ethernet
connector, which is a bit more flexible method, as an Ethernet cable can
be much longer than a USB cable, and they can actually record directly
to a network share as well, instead of using a local HDD.

--
znark

[Back to original message]