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Posted by Frank on 11/27/06 03:35
On 26 Nov 2006 13:00:32 -0800, in 'rec.video.production',
in article <Re: Exported AVi is of poor quality>,
pwilleke@gmail.com wrote:
>Frank,
>
>I have put my answers in between your text, I hope that is clear
>enough.
Absolutely, and I'll reply inline as well. By the way, I didn't have
your original post available to me when I composed my post.
>This reply should give answer to questions of others, if not sorry,
>could you ask specifically what I need to tell you?
>
>PS: The movie also looks very bad on tv, a lot of stripes and not
>fluent video.
>
>Thanx,
>P
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>With regard to your input files, they both appear to be standard PAL
>>DV (Digital Video) files, but with low quality 16/32 audio rather than
>>16/48 audio.
>
>This is quit surprising, I thought the camera's were digital.
>However, I don't know the settings that were used.
Yes, it's digital, both the video and the audio, but except on a very
few, mostly older camcorders (the original Sony DCR-VX1000 comes to
mind), you get choices for your audio bit depth and sampling rate.
Personally, I can't stand dealing with 12-bit 32 kHz audio. (I used to
have a client who used to send me 12/32 DAT tapes to edit, despite my
repeatedly asking for 16/48 tapes, but that's another story.)
In the camcorder's menus you should see a place to choose the audio
mode, probably labeled 12/16 or 32/48. Always use the 16 or 48 setting
instead of the 12 or 32 setting for best possible quality.
>>I have no idea why GSpot reported that you didn't have the correct
>>video codec installed, as a DirectShow-based version is included with
>>Windows (MSDV.SYS). You might want to check (run DXDIAG.EXE) to ensure
>>that you have the latest version of DirectX installed (9.0c) on your
>>system. If you don't, then get it from the Microsoft Web site.
>
>I ran DXDIAG.EXE and the DirectX version is DirectX 9.0c
>(4.09.0000.0904)
Excellent, then you should have a copy of the Microsoft DV codec on
your system. Please do a search for a file called MSDV.SYS. That's the
Microsoft-supplied DirectShow DV codec. I would have expected that
GSpot would have said that that was the codec that would be used to
decode the video stream within your input files.
Also, you should see msdv.sys listed on the "DirectX Files" tab of the
DXDIAG.EXE output.
>>When you created your output file, it looks like Premiere upsampled
>>your audio from 16/32 to 16/48. There's nothing wrong with this. In
>>fact, in the future, always acquire (shoot) your video with 16/48
>>audio to start with, not 16/32. 16/32 is garbage.
>
>I will remember this one when filming myself. As the two files were
>shot with camera's that are not mine, I didn't have any control over
>the settings.
Okay. You'll get much better sounding audio, and with a lower noise
floor to boot.
>>As to the visual quality of your output file, it looks bad because it
>>was encoded with the Cinepak codec, which is sort of old and obsolete.
>>Also, we don't know the frame rate and frame size (dimensions) of your
>>output video file because this information isn't listed in your post.
>>This is critical information.
>
>In Premiere I found that the Frame Size = 720h 480v
>FrameRate = 29.97
>Pixel Aspect Ratio: D1/DV Pal (1.067)
Interesting. Considering its age, I'm almost surprised that Cinepak
supports those dimensions. Cinepak, as I seem to recall, came from an
era when the usual intended playback device for video was on the
computer itself, hence square pixel support only.
Note that 720 by 480 at 29.97 frames per second is NTSC, not PAL. Is
your intent to create NTSC-compatible output or PAL-compatible output?
If you want to create PAL-compatible output, aside from using the DV
codec rather than the Cinepak codec, you want a frame size of 720 by
576 at 25 frames per seconds (interlaced at 50 fields per second),
just like your input files.
Also, in case you're offered an option, be aware that field order
(dominance) should be lower (bottom) field first. If you get that
backwards (that is, upper field first), you'll end up with some very
funny looking video. :)
>>When you saved your output file, you should have specified DV as your
>>output codec. I suspect that Cinepak was chosen because it may be the
>>default codec on your system and you didn't specify anything to the
>>contrary.
>
>In the setting for Premiere I see the Compressor used is indeed Cinepak
>codec by Radius.
>The other that I see in the list are:
>- ffdshow Video Codec
>- Indeo Video 5.10
>- Intel Indeo Video R3.2
>- Intel Indeo Video 4.5
>- Intel IYUV Codec
>- Microsoft RLE
>- Microsoft Video 1
>
>What would have been a better choise????
As above, PAL DV. I don't know why you're not being offered that
option. Perhaps your project settings are incorrect. I do seem to
recall that Premiere 6 didn't support DirectShow codecs, though, so I
assume that it has its own built-in support.
>>I also get the feeling that you're using an old version of Premiere
>>and not the latest Premiere Pro 2.0, but for a project like this, that
>>should have no negative impact, although you have to be careful which
>>codecs you select.
>
>I use Premiere 6.0, for now, I want to upgrade, but I don't know if the
>project file (ppj)
>I created in 6.0 will load in Pro 2.0
I believe that it _should_ load, but personally I wouldn't trust it,
if you know what I mean. :)
My recommendation is to complete the present project before upgrading.
>>I also have a suspicion that the output file that you created may have
>>a frame rate as low as 15 frames per second instead of 25 frames per
>>second and that the frame size may be as small as 320 by 240 instead
>>of 720 by 576.
>
>As I wrote above, it is at a frameRate of 29.97 and Sie is 720x480.
Okay, but as mentioned above, I would think that you want PAL output,
not NTSC output, since your input files are PAL.
>>Sorry to say this, but there's no way to recover the lost visual
>>quality at this point. You will most likely have to re-edit your
>>project.
>
>This I don't understand, the input files are of good quality.
>If I could improve the output quality of Premiere, I could just export
>to Movie again, no?
Oh, yes, sorry, I was thinking that all that you still had available
to you were the two original input files and the bad output file.
>>As a quick test, you may want to open up one of your two input
>>(source) files in Premiere, edit out a small one minute portion, and
>>save this one-minute clip back out to disk (under a different name, of
>>course - do not overwrite the original file) specifying the DV codec.
>>Then open this output file in GSpot to ensure that Premiere used the
>>DV codec (FourCC dvsd) at 25 fps and 720x576 and that the audio is
>>2-channel 16/48 PCM.
>As I wrote above, I don't have a DV codec (at least, it seems to me I
>don't).
>So I'm not sure on what to do the check for a better output quality.
Two suggestions: check your Premiere Project settings (should be PAL
DV) and install an old-style VfW VCM (Video for Windows Video
Compression Manager) DV codec. You'll find a few floating around the
Net for free. You might try http://www.free-codecs.com/ as a starting
point. Also, those more familiar with editing DV in Premiere 6 may be
able to better advise you.
>>In other words, ensure that you have the correct workflow in place
>>prior to doing an actual project.
>
>
>>Also, I don't know which version of Premiere you're using, but you may
>>want to start by creating a Project which has the correct parameters.
>>Then import your source files, edit, and render your output file
>I opened the project as a DV - PAL : Standard 48kHz.
>
>
>
>
>I hope you can help me further with this info.
>It seems to me however that the output was done with 48kHz en 29
>FrameRate, so it should be fine, not?
Well, the frame rate is incorrect for PAL, which should be 25 fps, not
29.97 fps, but I don't know what sort of output you wish to create.
I'm assuming PAL is what you want.
>Thanx a million for looking at this problem I'm having,
>P (Belgium - Europe)
Hope this helps.
--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
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