Reply to Re: Youtube copyright infringements are not all bad for the copyright holders?

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Posted by PTravel on 12/05/06 21:55

"Colin B" <Colin B@cb.org> wrote in message news:4575e5bd$1@clear.net.nz...
>
> "PTravel" <ptravel@travelersvideo.com> wrote in message
> news:4tltu5F14ems0U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Skip" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:ro3dh.3$%T6.0@newsfe15.phx...
>>> "Colin B" <Colin B@cb.org> wrote in message
>>> news:4573e69e$1@clear.net.nz...
>>>> Now that it's easy to put your digital photographs and movies on to a
>>>> video sharing site, such as "youtube", the question of whether
>>>> copyright infringements really harm the copyright holders is now a hot
>>>> topic. See, for example, the article titled:
>>>>
>>>> Youtube copyright infringements are not all bad for the copyright
>>>> holders?
>>>>
>>>> http://fredhere.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>> What do you think of the arguments in this blog? Should copyright
>>>> holders take a broad view and tolerate copyright infringements on
>>>> youtube as is suggested in this blog?
>>>>
>>>> See also the youtube site: http://www.youtube.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Only if proper attribution is given by the person who posts the
>>> copyrighted material. And, then, copyright infringement is arguable, at
>>> that point.
>>
>> Sorry, but that's absolutely, completely wrong. Attribution is
>> irrelevant to infringement, except that if you acknowledge the copyright
>> owner when you infringe, you've rendered yourself liable for intentional
>> infringement.
>>
>>> Too often, material is put up without attribution, and there's no way
>>> for the viewer to hunt down and purchase the original, if so inclined.
>>
>> Doesn't matter. There is absolutely no obligation on the part of a
>> copyright owner to make his work of authorship available for others' use
>> or purchase. "I didn't know who owned it" is not a defense to copyright
>> infringement.
>
>
> What we are seeing from the contributors to this thread is that, many
> people are not well informed on copyright issues and are therefore likely
> to upload material to the youtube site that does not have the required
> copyright clearance. So doesn't this show that the onus should be on the
> WEBSITE OWNER to have all the material uploaded to the site first cleared
> for copyright issues BEFORE it is published?

I agree, it should. However, I didn't write the DMCA -- lobbyists did, and
those lobbyists represent corporate interests who would prefer to have
themselves insulated from liability for what gets posted on their websites.

Now, here's an interesting one. I have a few videos up on my website, and I
also uploaded them to Youtube. When Yahoo started its video service,
evidently it crawled the web looking for videos to get it started, grabbed
them and posted them with attribution. It has a little "disclaimer" that
says, in effect, if you're the owner of the copyright and don't like that we
did it, just ask us and we'll remove it. Well, Yahoo grabbed my videos,
without permission, and posted them on its service. They are _not_
indemnified by the DMCA, as the videos weren't uploaded by their users --
they did it themselves. I find that a little presumptious, and have been
mulling over the possiblity of a class action suit. Fortunately for Yahoo,
I've got bigger professional fish to fry at the moment.

> If visitors to the youtube site see literally thousands of items taken
> from DVDs and TV shows, then they obviously think it's OK to upload
> similar material, because the existing material must surely have the
> blessing of youtube's owners, otherwise it would have been taken down long
> ago.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Did you ever post a video to Youtube? The posting
process makes it very clear that you must own the rights to upload the
material. It's hard to imagine someone thinking, "it's okay for me to
upload this, even though I don't have the rights."

There are a number of large media content owners that actually upload to
Youtube themselves. For instance, you'll find lots of material from the
Letterman show that is uploaded by CBS.

>
> There is ample evidence to youtube's owners that it is simply not safe to
> rely on the judgment of the uploaders over copyright issues because they
> are simply not well enough informed. Even experts disagree a lot over
> copyright issues, so how can an uploader to youtube be expected to do the
> right thing?

This isn't a question of the "right thing," but the "legal thing." There's
no dispute among experts that uploading someone else's protected expression
to Youtube without permission is copyright infringement. Youtube, by virtue
of the federal statute, has no obligation to review uploaded material for
potential infringement. Uploaders, by virtue of the federal statute, do
have an obligation to ensure that they are authorized before distributing
protected expression.

> So perhaps the only answer for everybody is to wait for the copyright
> holders to complain, and then, and only then, take the offending material
> down?

That is the answer under the current law. I don't produce video
commercially -- I just do it for fun. However, if my livelihood was
invested in the video product I produced, I would pursue any infringement,
particularly one as visible as Youtube.

>
> But could a person who illegally uploaded to youtube a few tracks from a
> DVD be sued?

Absolutely.

Wouldn't their defence be that youtube should have taken the clips
> down if they thought they infringed copyright?

Nope. Uploading video to Youtube implicates three reserved rights: the
right to make copies, the right to distribute and the right to publicly
perform/display. As soon as they've done the upload, they've infringed the
copyright of the copyright owner. "Stop me before I infringe again" is not
a defense to copyright infringement.

>
>

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