Posted by PizzaDriver on 12/22/06 23:44

On Thu, 21 Dec 2006 19:59:51 -0600, "Theophilus"
<intrexATsasktelDOTnet> wrote:

><snip>
>
>>>> You asserted that Atheism is a religion. It isn't. Sort it out!
>>>
>>>Yes, I made the assertion that atheism is a religion and then went on to
>>>say
>>>why. On the other hand, you just make the assertion that it isn't,
>>>without
>>>saying why at all. Sorry, not good enough, I don't believe you.
>>
>> You asserted atheism was a religion, then FAILED to demonstrate why.
>
>Here are my points:
>
>1) Atheism IS a religion, the most hypocritical known.

For which you have supplied NO proof.

>2) Religion is the wilful self-delusion about higher power(s) being the
>actual arbiters of mankind and the universe.

So atheists are delusional and religious folks are delusional? Why
split hairs?

>3) It's really about who the arbiter, the assigner of meaning is.

Proof?

>4) For the atheist it is his himself, he is his own arbiter, master of all
>morality and value. That flies in the face of evidence; he says that he
>knows that he is no more valuable than any other piece of matter in the
>materialistic universe, and yet continues to assign value to himself and his
>actions anyways.

Where is this 'evidence' you keep invoking? I've never heard an
atheist claim themselves less valuable than 'things'.

>Clear enough for you? Atheists delude themselves in the same way that
>religious people, but they do it in SPITE of the evidence around them. That
>is what makes them hypocrites.

Nope. clueless arguments never seem to gain cluefulness.

Again you seem to assert atheists and religious folks are both
delusional, Again, why are you splitting hairs?

Again, in spite of WHAT evidence?

>> If it is a religion, where is(are) its Holy Book(s). Every religion
>> has them, right? Which days are holy to the atheist? What day of the
>
>Wrong. Many religions have no such thing. Modern ones would include any of
>the New Age practices, Wicca, pick any of a hundred jungle religions. Old
>ones include the religions of the Norse, the Romans, the Greeks, and many
>other oriental and indo-american religions. Maybe you are thinking of the
>traditional, orthodox religions. Religion is about the BELIEFS about higher
>power, and the practices surrounding those beliefs.

Yup, I've never seen a new age or wiccan book. For sure.

>For atheists, that means the beliefs and practices they have about
>themselves.

You mean acting as tho unencumbered by religion?

>>Which days are holy to the atheist? What day of the
>
>Today.

Just today?

>> week do they get together to not worship? Which deity do they invoke?
>
>Themself, of course.

So atheists are holy deities, now?

>> Where are their churches? Do they have any dietary proscriptions?
>
>Each has his own. It's his own mind. Some are gluttons, some are
>fastidious, the religion has no strict dietary codes.

Almost as if.... they had no religion?

>>Atheists say that the universe is a meaningless place, but they still
>>>assign
>>>themselves value. That's hypocrisy. In fact, the evidence is all around
>>>that they have NO value, but they still carry on as if they do. That
>>>isn't
>>>even faith, because the evidence is right there; it's willful ignorance, a
>>>decision NOT to see the truth around them.
>>
>> I've never heard an atheist say the universe is meaningless. I've
>
>That's because you have never asked one.

I've had hundreds of conversations about <cough> faith with dozens of
atheist and agnostic friends. Than means you are either wrong, lying,
or calling me a liar.

>Demonstrate the "meaning" behind your typical electrochemical reaction, and you will soon find that the
>empirical, materialistic view of atheism has no room for any real meaning.

'View of atheism'. As opposed to simple non-belief?

>Relative meaning and worth? You bet. But absolute meaning? Not one shred
>of it exists in the universe, to the honest atheist.

I call bullshit.

>> heard Xtians say it is meaningless without God. So you equate
>> non-belief in a deity as an assertion the universe is meaningless?
>> Pretty specious reasoning.
>
>No, not at all. It's the other way around, a meaningless universe has no
>room for a deity, the atheist is just unwilling to acknowledge that. On the
>other hand, can you describe a meaningful universe that doesn't have a
>deity? What gives it meaning?

See you just put a different spin on 'the universe is meaningless
without god.' You didn't back your assertion, you just gave it a
different spin.

>An example of relative meaning:
>
>Is it a tragedy when an ant hill is destroyed by a bulldozer?
>
>Is it a tragedy when the earth is totally destroyed by an asteroid? Would
>it mattter at all?

Sure, in the grand scale of the universe, shit happens. If it
happened locally it'd suck, doesn't prove or disprove a deity, does
it?

>BTW, sorry I took so long to get back on, crazy here this week.
>
>

'Crazy' is the operative word, all right.



__

"If the people knew what we had done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us." - - George H. W. Bush.

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