Posted by Gene on 02/09/07 22:56

Thanks,

Yes, I agree that Google & others will give you
a free GB or so of data space. I kind of doubt that
they will commit to keeping my 2GB of data for the next
20 years for free though :-)

I will shoot at least 5 hours of MiniDV this weekend.
That's ~ 100GB of simi-compressed data. I have more than
5,000 hours of camcorder data on various old tapes at present.

Using just 1000 hrs of camcorder data x 20GB = 20,000GB of
storage required. Really do not think Google, or anyone else,
would be happy to give me a guarantee that they will store
that much data for 20 years, and give me access to it at will -
all for free.

All that I'm saying is:
"It's impractical to upload that much data for any reason at this time."
Especially when all I have to do is burn it to cheap DVD-Rs
in the background while I'm doing other stuff on the PC.
(I'm burning one in the background as we speak.)

What makes sense for a few GB of web page, etc. data, is
impractical for huge amounts of A/V data - at the present time
at least.

Not sure how long it would take to upload 100,000GB of data
via T1, but it's a lot longer & more hassle that I am willing to
accept :-)

I was not aware that the internet protocol had changed, I thought that
everything was still in multi-packets, and over different paths. It's
probably
silly to keep the old security protocol, given that the net is no longer a
national
security thing. Guess packet verification is no longer really all that
necessary.
Geesh, I have not seen a parity check in years:-)

I really need to see the URL to a place on the internet that offers this
service for > 100,000GB of uploads & look into the pricing to store this
for 20 years. Can't imagine that they can be competitive with my burning
a DVD-R & a backup duplicate copy for a total of $0.12.

Whether the DVD-Rs will last 20 years is an unknown, but my 40 year
old audio cassettes still play just fine. Duplicating a stack of DVDs is
VERY
easy & inexpensive - so if they only make it 10 years, no big deal. They
just
get auto-duped to the best media at that time.

Gene




"Rick Merrill" <rick0.merrill@NOSPAM.gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ws2dnb9h_s5DclHYnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d@comcast.com...
> Gene wrote:
>> Sorry, I REALLY am not trying to be argumentative - I just
>> do not understand what you are saying.
>>
>> I do not think you fully understand the history of the internet,
>> or how it is currently structured. The internet was initially
>> funded to send a message (in parts) via telephone line
>> links so that it would be secure. That is, if someone read
>> 1/2 of the message, then they probably would not completely
>> understand said classified message. This was during the cold war,
>> if I remember. Then the universities started playing with it, then
>> NASA used some of its enormous budget & got involved. Today,
>> it is basically the same animal. Probably not much of a security
>> vehicle for national defense today, but a great way for the world
>> to communicate with text, as well as download full-length movies,
>> etc. Mechanically, it's basically the same old internet, sending
>> out packets to nodes all over the world, then reassembling the
>> packets for the final product.
>>
>> The internet is nothing more than a lot of computers connected
>> together via telephone & other links. My ISP is one, your ISP is one,
>> if I had an old PC in my back room connected to the internet, it would
>> be a node. The nodes usually have hard drives attached, some have
>> tape drive backup(s), there are a lot of data storage possibilities.
>>
>> When I hit return on THIS text message, it will go to my ISP, and from
>> there
>> "who knows" where it will be routed. If I am not mistaken, they still
>> break up this
>> text message into at least two parts, for security. THIS text message
>> will be
>> spread over the internet, in pieces - who knows where. However, it will
>> eventually
>> be patched back together and displayed in this newsgroup as a string of
>> text.
>> Bits and pieces of THIS text message may remain on certain nodes for
>> some time - never looked into how long each node retains said pieces.
>>
>> What I "thought" you initially suggested was that I place my family A/V
>> data
>> onto the internet as a better solution to my burning the MiniDV tapes
>> onto
>> DVD-Rs at my home for permanent storage. If I placed my camcorder data on
>> the internet,
>> (other than FTP it to some place like my ISP or other computer) then it
>> would be scattered
>> all over the USA and possibly the world. How would you ever retrieve the
>> pieces tomorrow,
>> let alone 20 years from now? My A/V data would presumably make it to a
>> final destination,
>> like my ISP's hard drive(s), etc., or some company that provides storage
>> space. All of
>> the packet data on the internet would eventually be erased, except for
>> the data at the final
>> destination. There is no enormous storage space out there called the www
>> or internet, or whatever
>> that permanently stores your data for 20 years. Your data goes to a
>> storage device, presumably
>> at your ISP, or other computer that you choose. There, it gets archived
>> onto disk, tape,
>> or whatever storage media for storing for the 20 years. It would have to
>> be stored on random access
>> media to be easily downloaded for your use, else you would have to send
>> in a request for
>> certain data to be copied from your archive tape to hard drive, so you
>> could download a video clip.
>>
>> I do not believe that any company can stay in business providing 1GB of
>> data storage
>> for 20 years for a total of $0.06/USD, which is my current cost to burn a
>> high quality DVD-R at my home.
>> In the future, we may see links that are a LOT faster than T1, and
>> uploading 50GB would
>> not be a big deal, but even then, I still would not want folks
>> warehousing my private personal
>> camcorder A/V data - at any price.
>>
>> If you know of a place on the web that will do this for free, or $0.06/GB
>> for 20 years guaranteed
>> storage, please post their URL. I'm never too old to learn new stuff:-)
>> I think that I would better understand what you are saying by reading
>> their web page.
>>
>> Sorry if I misunderstood what you were initially suggesting,
>> I'm really confused by your comments.
>>
>> Hmmmm - I'm not sure if FTP breaks the data into packets or not?
>> I just assumed that it was packets too, just never thought ~ it until
>> today:-)
>> Academic, but anyone know?
>>
>> Gene
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Richard Crowley" <rcrowley@xp7rt.net> wrote in message
>> news:5341gbF1qlft4U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> "GMAN" wrote ...
>>>> "Richard Crowley" wrote:
>>>>> "Gene" wrote ...
>>>>>> Sorry, but I still do not understand how anyone could store my data
>>>>>> as cheaply as I can. That would assume that I was willing to
>>>>>> allow someone to view my family movies - which I would NEVER do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As of today, my total out-of-pocket cost to store a gigabyte of data
>>>>>> is ~ six cents/US ($0.06). That is on a very high quality DVD-R,
>>>>>> single. I can't even conceive of someone providing me with 20 years
>>>>> I think there will be LOTS of horror stories here in less than 20
>>>>> years of people who thought that writable optical discs would
>>>>> provide some sort of "archival quality" storage. Good luck.
>>>>> But whatever you do, don't throw away the original tapes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Yet, you are going to trust your ISP to keep your data safe
>>>> for that long on their hardware?
>>> 1) Thats just silly. An ISP is not an archive. An ISP is a place
>>> to host my web pages, and a SMTP server to shuttle my email.
>>>
>>> 2) Reputable ISPs run industrial-strength backup/restore
>>> systems. (Using digital mag tape.) To cover hardware failures
>>> at their end. I expect nothing more (or less) from any ISP.
>
> Well you got the transmission by packets right - but the truth is that the
> odds are HUGE that each packet will in fact take the same path.
>
> But you misunderstood the storage part. Google, for example, gives
> everybody who wants it 2GB of storage for email FREE! Zip your files and
> email them to yourself!
>
> The internet connects many types of storage. Data actually may or may not
> move from one place to another. Also, look up internet "mirrors".

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