Posted by Stuart Miller on 02/22/07 04:51

<mansfield.andrew@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172113878.888207.115680@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 21, 2:25 pm, "Stuart Miller" <stuart_mil...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> <mansfield.and...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:1171935208.043210.141040@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> > On Feb 19, 5:20 pm, "Alpha" <n...@none.net> wrote:
>> >> "Alpha" <n...@none.net> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:erd7ja$6te$1@zinnia.noc.ucla.edu...
>>
>> >> > <mansfield.and...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> >> >news:1171908148.631190.276770@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >> On Feb 19, 11:33 am, Don Del Grande <del_grande_n...@earthlink.net>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>> Andrew Mansfield wrote:
>> >> >>> >> Macrovision Buster for Sale on Ebay: Tonight Only. DVD-DX11.
>>
>> >> >>> >> Please see my Ebay listing at the following link if you are
>> >> >>> >> interested:
>>
>> >> >>> >Hi guys:
>>
>> >> >>> >I am really sorry you thought my posting was spam. It is very
>> >> >>> >difficult to get word out about these devices: everything I read
>> >> >>> >indicates they are legal. They are not regulated under the DMCA
>> >> >>> >because they are analog signal cleaners. Yet last night Ebay
>> >> >>> >took
>> >> >>> >down my auction for copyright infringement.
>>
>> >> >>> Your problem might be that eBay could be trying to prevent the
>> >> >>> sale
>> >> >>> of
>> >> >>> something whose use is illegal. (17 USC 1201(a)(1)(A): "No person
>> >> >>> shall circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls
>> >> >>> access to a work protected under this title." Using your "signal
>> >> >>> cleaner" does just that.)
>>
>> >> >>> Besides, if you want a strict interpretation of DMCA, selling your
>> >> >>> device sounds like it is illegal (17 USC 1201(a)(2)(A): "No person
>> >> >>> shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or
>> >> >>> otherwise
>> >> >>> traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or
>> >> >>> part thereof, that is primarily designed or produced for the
>> >> >>> purpose
>> >> >>> of circumventing protection afforded by a technological measure
>> >> >>> that
>> >> >>> effectively protects a right of a copyright owner under this title
>> >> >>> in
>> >> >>> a work or a portion thereof"; your eBay auction page admits that
>> >> >>> your
>> >> >>> Macrovision Buster removes Macrovision - true, it's to "remove
>> >> >>> color
>> >> >>> and analog noise caused by Macrovision," but nevertheless it
>> >> >>> removes
>> >> >>> Macrovision).
>>
>> >> >>> -- Don
>>
>> >> >> Sorry Don:
>>
>> >> >> Not true. The terms of the DMCA apply *only* to digital
>> >> >> technologies,
>> >> >> i.e., encryption. No analog protection scheme, however
>> >> >> implemented,
>> >> >> qualifies under the "title" of the DMCA. Look at the definitions
>> >> >> at
>> >> >> the top of the title.
>>
>> >> >> Thanks to the dozens of people who have emailed in support of this
>> >> >> device and with advice on selling it (and the many places that do).
>> >> >> It is heartening to see so many good people opposed to the DMCA and
>> >> >> copyright fascism.
>>
>> >> >> Andrew
>>
>> >> > This is a grey area. A number of rulings have required Macrovision
>> >> > removal in DVD recorders imported from China to be disabled...etc
>> >> > etc.
>> >> > The courts in California disagree with your interpretation.
>>
>> >> > There are several important modifications made to the DMCA in
>> >> > December
>> >> > by
>> >> > the Library of Congress, but they do not hold here.
>>
>> >> > I believe the Sima CT-2 clarifier had to be pulled from the market
>> >> > by
>> >> > Sima...and that is what your device does.
>>
>> >> PS
>>
>> >> I am absolutely against the absurdly written DMCA, and a member of the
>> >> EFF,
>> >> but that does not change reality.
>>
>> > Interesting, thanks for the heads up.
>>
>> > One of two suppliers is still selling this unit directly into the US
>> > market new. It just seems absurd to me that ebay appears to be going
>> > further than the DMCA requires. On further back-and-forth with them,
>> > they basically admit they are not required by law to block the sale of
>> > analog Macrovision removers, but their poilcy requires the take-down
>> > of any ad / listing that "encourages" anyone to violate copyright, by
>> > whatever means.
>>
>> > So . . . if I sell an old-school VCR and fill the ad / listing with
>> > encouragement for folks to copy other VCR tapes, even non Macrovision,
>> > I would be in violation of their terms of use. Or to keep up the with
>> > the absurd analogies, I couldn't sell a book and fill the ad / listing
>> > with advice to copy a chapter at Kinko's.
>>
>> > And in general, courts that extend anti-circumvention protection to
>> > analog distortion should be tarred and feathered.
>>
>> > We will all soon be living in a world of micropayments to the patent
>> > and copyright holders of the world. Welcome to hell.
>>
>> Many literary works require the expenditure of a great deal of time and
>> effort, and often cash, to get the work created. It is totally fair that
>> those who created the work be paid according to market forces for that
>> work.
>> When there is unregulated copying or such works, the owner of the work is
>> denied payment, and the copier, who has invested nothing, stands to make
>> the
>> profit instead.
>>
>> If you want the content, for work or enjoyment, pay for it. If you want
>> free
>> entertainment, use your television.
>>
>> There is nothing evil about being a copyright or patent holder - that is
>> what makes it worthwhile to take a risk on a project.
>>
>> I don't give away the rights to the products I have created - the
>> rolayties
>> give me the income so I can feed my family and create new products. If
>> you
>> judge that the copyright holder is rich enough already, then buy your
>> entertainment from someone else. When people stop buying the products,
>> the
>> price will drop.
>>
>> If you want to live in a world of free products, then be prepared to work
>> for the government, for free. This is the principle of communism -
>> everybody
>> shares, everybody works.
>>
>> Stuart
>
> And what "market forces" are you talking about Stuart? Copyright and
> patent are government grants that PREVENT market forces from
> working.
>
> A
Quite the contrary
Copyright may make the price higher than zero, but everybody in the market
has the right to refuse to buy the product.
Low sales = price goes down. Simple supply and demand, simple economics.
There is no monopoly here, there are many sources of entertainment, all
competing for limited consumer dollars.

Stuart

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