Posted by Arny Krueger on 07/18/07 19:33

"Mark & Mary Ann Weiss" <mweissX294@earthlink.net> wrote in
message news:H%gni.141406$mZ7.73355@fe01.news.easynews.com
>>> Needless to say, I think Sony has a major issue to
>>> correct with these cameras. It's worse than the PD150
>>> hiss problem. In all other respects, the V1U audio is
>>> acceptable. s/n is pretty good for a camera, but there's
>>> no excuse to roll off the low end at 1222Hz. Look at
>>> these results, carefully measured under laboratory
>>> conditions:
>>>
>>> http://www.basspig.com/HVR-V1U_PCM_Audio(DV).htm
>>
>> You have been mislead by a vastly expanded vertical dB
>> scale.

> In general, I have had a high degree of respect for you,
> based on your demonstration of audio knowledge on USEnet,

Thank you.

> however, in this case, I think you're being too forgiving
> of this horrible digital recording system.

I haven't forgiven anything - its just that the scale used in the page being
referred to does use a signficiantly expanded dB scale.

>> The actual -3 dB point is about 130 Hz. The rolloff is
>> hard to judge because of the expanded scale, but does
>> not seem to be overly rapid. Not all that great, but
>> about an order of magnitude better than you have been
>> mislead to believe.

On second glance, the roll-off appears to be about 12 dB per octave.

> RightMark is intended to measure digital audio systems,
> hence, anything more than +/-0.1dB is objectionable
> deviation across the 20-20kc bandpass.


While 30 dB down at 20 Hz is kinda of a lot for a hi-fi system, its not bad
by say live sound standards.

> It's scale is
> generous to even encompass 3dB of deviation. But the
> realworld fact is that the audio system on the V1U is
> down more than 30dB at 20cps. Not acceptable for a
> digital--any digital recording system.

If the digital recording system in question is optimized for ENG, then flat
response to 20 Hz is not required at all.

Sony specifically says that this camera was intended for ENG:

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/minisites/HDV1080/HVR-V1U/overview.html

"The compact professional camcorders manufactured by Sony have introduced a
new level of mobility for ENG and documentary-making worldwide with their
superior quality and compact dimensions."

>> This camera won't be all that bad for voice and most
>> music. It is not the tool of choice for recording big
>> pipe organs, bass guitars or other instruments with
>> deeper significant bass fundamentals. However, an octave
>> or two of additional bass could be restored with some
>> well-thought out equalization.

> It's not even good for voice, because it's not even flat
> over the speech range. Hear examples:
> http://aamserver.dnsalias.com/basspig/HVR-V1U_Audio_samples.htm

Of the samples provided only one is speech-only. It's a reading done by a
guy with one of the deepest voices around, recorded using an atypical
microphone for typical video work, and recorded in a pristene environment.
Someone stacked the deck.

>> Just about any vocal mic that is attached to it will
>> have a comparable or worse bass rolloff.

> This would be a good argument for having a camera audio
> system that has bass BOOST, not bass cutoff.

Not at all. My point is that bass cutoffs are very common when voice is
being amplified or recorded, partcularaly outside of a pristine studio
environment.

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