Posted by Lloyd Parsons on 09/21/07 17:07

In article <1190383442.169605.121080@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
ninphan <sjburke73@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Sep 20, 5:32 pm, Lloyd Parsons <lloydpars...@mac.com> wrote:
> > In article <1190320783.833702.316...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ninphan <sjburk...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 19, 4:45 pm, Derek Janssen <ejan...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > > > >>Believe me, a few months with Blu-Boy, and a PS3 was the LAST thing
> > > > >>on
> > > > >>this good green earth I was interested in getting as a player... >_<
> >
> > > > >>But FWIH, you're not the only one who threw Sony out with the
> > > > >>bathwater
> > > > >>over the first/second-gen S300 mistake--
> > > > >>Me, I was keeping an eye on Samsung, but after their hoped-for
> > > > >>third-gen
> > > > >>hadn't gotten their Profile yet, I had to face the tech-player advice
> > > > >>that the PS3 really *was* the only good current '07 Sony standalone
> > > > >>out
> > > > >>there for firmware upgrade ability.
> >
> > > > > But Sony is damn mum about how far they will go to upgrade the PS3.
> > > > > There is no assurance it will happen. FWIW, I think it will be.
> >
> > > > > So I'll just wait a bit before buying any new BD player.
> >
> > > > Not as mum as Sharp is about specs on their mysterious Q4 Aquos
> > > > player--
> > > > Which's why I'm also keeping an eye on the "third player" before
> > > > *officially* going PS3...After CES'08 at the earliest.
> > > > (To bring us back to topic.)
> >
> > > > But the issue on PS3 was over whether the chips COULD upgrade to
> > > > firmware updates, which seems to have been the stumbling block so far
> > > > with the S300 and other early standalones--
> > > > The chips on the home-theater models proved to be so unadaptable to
> > > > other uses, they haven't responded well to upgrades as well as the
> > > > all-purpose models.
> >
> > > > (And y'see, here we're back to that little "It'll still work tomorrow"
> > > > thing that frustrates the "Already available" HD fans who can't
> > > > understand why Blu fans have patience about "what isn't out yet":
> > > > Always have to buy your clothes with growing room.)
> >
> > > > Derek Janssen
> > > > eja...@comcast.net
> >
> > > Blu-ray fans probably have patience because they don't care about PIP
> > > getting in the way of watching the main movie.
> > > It's all about picture quality and the Blu-ray players have it and the
> > > HD DVD players with the exception of the XA2 do not.
> > > 1080p/24 on a set that accepts and displays at either 72Hz or 120Hz is
> > > always going to be a more accurate picture than a 1080i/60 source.
> > > Just look at Gary Merson's numerous tests done on sets with that input
> > > signal - disastrous, over 50% failure on deinterlacing and worse on
> > > 3:2 pulldown on 1080i/60 sources like the A2.
> >
> > Fanboi PQ bullshit is the best way to describe your post about the PQ of
> > a BD over HDDVD player. I have both and neither are better than the
> > other for PQ and AQ. Virtually every consumer review has said that very
> > same thing.
> >
> > And I guess PIP isn't important when you don't have it. But you can bet
> > your ass that the first 1.1 player will be touting it to the roof and
> > all you fanbois will be lining up to brag about it.
> >
> > > I keep hearing a lot about price and Toshiba has had players at the
> > > $200 mark often this year, yet HD DVD still cannot win a single week's
> > > worth of sales, not one week, this whole entire year!!! It's Q4 in 10
> > > days and HD DVD looks like HD DUD I'm afraid. Call it fanboyism if you
> > > wish, I call it reality. I call it a desire to see an end to the war
> > > with the best format on the market and that is Blu-ray.
> >
> > With the huge number of BD players out there, BD movies should be
> > selling at 4:1 or more, yet they can't even quite get to 2:1.
> >
> > > I also keep hearing a lot about how HD DVD has a finished spec, yet
> > > now I hear a lot about HD51 discs! I guess the spec isn't finished at
> > > all is it?
> >
> > The spec is finished, HD51 is about the next spec. Frankly other than
> > bragging rights, I can't figure out why they want it at all.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Sharp have released their specs. It supports TrueHD decoding,
> > > bitstream audio out through HDMI of DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD,
> > > DTS-HD, Dolby Digital Plus and is profile 1.0 compliant as it is being
> > > released before October 31st, 2007. Their all in one BD-MPC70 Blu-ray
> > > Home Cinema System is a different story. It will be released in Spring
> > > 2008 and will be at least profile 1.1 compliant, much like the
> > > upcoming Denon DVD-3800BD player.
> >
> > > As for Blu-ray players starting at $500 for this Christmas...where do
> > > people come up with this crap? Do they not bother researching before
> > > typing?
> >
> > > The new Samsung BD-P1400 with DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD
> > > support through HDMI bitstream 1.3a and 1080p/24 output is $429.90
> > > The BDP-S300 is $439
> >
> > When posting general pricing, MSRP is almost always used as special
> > deals come and go.
> >
> > But let's assume you are correct and those prices hold up. Then they
> > are more than twice as high as the expected price of HDDVD entry
> > machines.
> >
> > > This is with another three months to go before the holidays! Prices
> > > will not be a factor when people bother to look at what's
> > > available...and they will. Fox, Disney and Sony will all have either
> > > endcaps or big signs in stores with Die Hard 4, Silver Surfer, Spider-
> > > man 3, Ratatouille and Pirates of the Caribbean 3 all being solely
> > > available on Blu-ray and Warner will have similar cutouts to the ones
> > > they had for "300" where both HD DVD and Blu-ray are prominently
> > > advertised. Transformers and Bourne just won't cut it against all this
> > > exposure people will be getting to Blu-ray.
> >
> > Assuming Fox actually does release this time, and that certainly is not
> > a given.
> >
> > > Aside from that, this Christmas is when J6P will be picking up an
> > > HDTV, not picking up a high definition player.
> >
> > You hope... :-)- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Sorry Lloyd but it's not fanboi PQ bullshit and if you read the links
> I posted you know that. If you don't know who Gary Merson is, google
> him quickly before you embarrass yourself some more.
>
> 3:2 pulldown and deinterlacing are not fanboi myths, they are
> realities. If you want to spend a few thousand dollars on an external
> scaler then go ahead, or you can read results and find out if your set
> deinterlaces properly and performs a proper cadence, other wise you
> are just flat out lying when you suggest a 1080i player is as good for
> PQ as a 1080p/24 player on the average 1080p television, because the
> test results clearly show that it IS NOT.

Yes they are realities, just not ones most care about or would even
notice. Except for fanbois on both sides, the difference isn't
significant enough to cause big sales to happen. Of course, as prices
drop on the sets capable of doing 1080p/24, then it won't matter.

Frankly I've seen the best and worst of both formats on many different
displays, and the difference between them is virtually nil, imo. And
almost every consumer level review says that same thing, only in the
more advanced sites and lab tests do we see any other talk. Of course,
in almost all of them, the advice is to wait for the phony war to end
also.

I think what all the audio/videophiles keep missing is that for the vast
majority of buyers, most of what we might think is so important, isn't
important at all.

And that is what the BD mfgs are also missing. A $500 MSRP entry level
player just isn't going to captivate a market, even if it WAS the only
hi def dvd player out there. If all we saw were these, then hi def dvd
loses out to upconverted SD. And all those titles won't make it happen,
because the kids can watch in the bedroom on smaller sets and be
perfectly happy, or just watch them on the big screen upconverted as SDs.

I've said it more than once, if this phony 'war' ended today, it would
be HDDVD if it was to be a significant win because of prices. If BD won
today, the 'war' is lost to SD.

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