Posted by Pre-Meltdown on 11/19/07 20:13

Richard Crowley" <rcrowley@xp7rt.net> wrote in message
news:5qe3b0FvdegiU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Pre-Meltdown" wrote ...
>> Well, I had given up the webcam idea after your first response!
>> My second response was intended along the lines of multiple camcorders.
>> And, by "permanent", I didn't mean "bolted down to the floor", just that
>> all the filming/production would be in one studio space, not going from
>> location to location.
>>
>> After to talking to B&H this morning, the multiple camcorder idea does
>> seem to be impractical.
>> Don't really understand *why* it's so impractical, but I'm in no position
>> to be a maverick here. :)
>
> Because there is more to making "watchable" video than simply
> pointing a camera. Just as there is more to doing NC machine
> work than buying a machine, chucking a random piece of metal
> in it and feeding it some codes.
>
> Because spreading your $$$ out over a bunch of cheap cameras
> will make everything look cheap. But the same $$$ for one good
> camera will make everything look great with the proper lighting
> (and blocking and framing, etc.)
>
> You can pretty much figure that the more "natural" something looks
> (and sounds), the more work went into selecting exactly the right
> equipment and having people behind that equipment who know
> how to make it look easy.
>
>> B&H basically said, if you have $10K, go pro (and stay traditional!).
>> If you want to get by for well under $5K, go consumer. But still use
>> mini-DV tape, as you suggested.
>>
>> So, they recommended a $500 Sony that is good in low light,
>
> Low light performance is great to have for shooting home movies,
> and for some event videography where you have no control over
> the lighting. But I'd rather have a camera that requires a lot of
> light to produce a nice picture than a camera that is good in low
> light. Lousy lighting is the very first thing anyone notices about
> amateur video. Most people can tell even if they can't articulate
> what it is about the picture that makes it look "amateurish".
>
>> maybe an $800 Panasonic, that would give nice results for what I need
>> right now.
>> Any specific camera recs/comments here would be appreciated.
>
> If I were starting today, I would try to find a Sony TRV-900 (which
> is not made anymore). On the advice of many people here I was
> fortunate enough to buy one before Sony realized that they had
> accidentially produced a (relatively) inexpensive camera that was
> eating into sales of their professional products.
>
>> Any user-friendly editing systems, for basic stuff?
>> AVSmedia claims their editing package is super-user friendly, and offer a
>> "super-bundle" of products at http://www.avsmedia.com/.
>> Good bundle? Good way to get started? Other suggestions?
>
> I would think that you could likely do everything you need with
> Adobe Premiere Elements which is available packaged with a
> Firewire card in many places for <$100 You are far more likely
> to get help in a forum like this if you are using a mainstream
> product like Premiere or Vegas, et.al.
>
>> Oh, btw, my little operation here is a bit more than "hand machining in a
>> basement".
>> The equipment I have (both CNC and manual), in about 1200 sq ft, is more
>> than capable of putting out 100's of units a week, altho I'm the first to
>> admit that this proly isn't the smartest way to go.
>> But I will have no choice but to do the first few hundred myself, before
>> I farm it out to professional production shops.
>>
>> In the same vein, I need to set up a basic video operation, to get the
>> overall "direction" correct, and then I'd be more than happy to let
>> professionals set up an efficient studio and produce a professional
>> product. I'm hoping the 5-600 sq ft studio space, which will house the
>> editing operation as well (altho that could be moved), will be
>> sufficient.
>
> Feels a bit cramped to me. Especialy if you have only conventional
> domestic ceiling heights. But good work has been done in less
> space if you plan wisely and have some experience blocking and
> lighting, etc.
>
>> Right now, I'm producing beta versions of the unit, but which still need
>> dvds, as the method of using the hardware/apparatus is as important as
>> the apparatus itself.
>> No looming deadline, just the sooner the better.
>>
>> It will indeed be ongoing video production, as the apparatus has so many
>> extensive uses, which vary with the niche: Professional/ballet dancers,
>> athletes, simple fitness/weightloss (which actually is not so simple,
>> mis-infomercials notwithstanding), joint rehab, back rehab,
>> sports-specific applications, etc.
>>
>> Looking forward to getting the video part up and running. Appreciate the
>> feedback and guidance.
>
> If you are starting from scratch, it is no place to try to pioneer new
> production methodologies. Your first priority is producing video
> to promote and instruct users of your product.
>
> There are some great lighting resources available online. One
> of my favorites is the stuff that Walter Graff has made available
> on his website: http://bluesky-web.com
> If I were starting where you are (and in the NYC vicinity) I would
> contact Walter to at least consult on how to get started. If you
> need a professional DVD on a budget and on a schedule I would
> consider hiring someone like him to produce it. You could spend
> hundreds (thousands?) of $$$ and many months getting up to
> speed producing video.

What an outstanding super-informative site Walter Graff has!! wow....
And, he's not too far from my old apt. in Manhattan!!

I am definitely going to contact him, after I read everything on his site.
A real bonanza.

I'm also going to B&H on Wed--they get in TRV900s periodically, sell them
for about $750. Since I may not be able to afford to wait, he said they
have comparable 3 ccd Panasonics, which I'm sure are more than adequate.
B&H mentioned Premier Elements, and has it for about $100--sounds great.
I am also going to look at their HP computer, a dual-drive (2x320 gigs), 3
gigs mem, 2.4 gHz processor (maybe dual, don't recall), dvd burner,
firewire, 20" Panasonic lcd monitor, Gforce video card, dvd burner, for
about $1400. Dedicate this computer for the video.
So I may be able to "get started" for about $2500.
B&H was very helpful.

Apropos of your and Steve King's other production advice, keep in mind that
this is just to get started, to figure out my own directions.
I couldn't even begin to deal with a script writer now, as there really is
no precedent for what I'm doing.
This is not hup-two-three-four/Ahm gonna pump you up stuff. It's more like
fitness *concepts* and analysis, how to figure out strategies in fitness,
rehab, as well as how to use my stuff.
Indeed, as Steve pointed out, keeping it all engaging, interesting is key.

And asking the big Q:
How do I (the user/consumer) know that what Guru X is saying about fitness
is *correct*?
And usually the unfortunate case is, You *can't* know, because virtually all
of it is artful smoke and mirrors, with just enough small elements of truth
to keep sed Guru from going to jail.
There are indeed 3 shells, but no pea!
However, by re-thinking the whole premise of fitness, and learning a few
fundamental concepts, one can gain impressive clarity on the subject.
First Hint: Fitness has *absolutely nothing* to do with abs. <g>
Second Hint: Sir Isaac Newton roolz.

So with my own scripts, strategies, outlines, demos, I have to do quite a
bit of initial experimentation in front of a camera, put a few things
together, to see what does/does not work--probably for quite a while, altho
the initial demos I have to get out are quite non-critical (just for the
beta units).
Much like prototype machining. You'd be amazed at what starts out as barely
recognizable poorly-welded crap, that then turns into a beautifully finished
machined product. I keep all those "junk" prototypes as reminders. I'm
running out of room, tho.. <g>

But you gotta start somewhere.
Some people can in fact do it all on paper, figure it all out in advance in
an orderly fashion, proceeding smoothly from A to Z.
I gave up on that decades ago. :)
When I get to about the letter "T", I'll be in a better position to call in
experienced people, which will result in much better use of everyone's
resources/talents--I hope.

Sound reasonable??

And yeah, I wish I could do something about the 8' ceilings. I've read that
painting them very dark (black) can make the space look larger, but that
might not work when the ceiling is already that low. I'd hate to have
re-paint it white again!!

Would be interested in comments on B&H's computer, and other camera recs.
Thanks again.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY

entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs





>
>

[Back to original message]