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Posted by Richard Crowley on 03/10/06 02:22
muzician21 wrote ...
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> >Using a Sony Digital8 Camcorder, has an 1/8" mic-in jack, though
>> >I've
>> >never used it. Since the camera has onboard mics that record stereo,
>> >I
>> >assume the jack to be stereo as well.
>
>> Don't use it.
>
> By "it", you mean the mic in jack?
Mr. Dorsey means do not use a camcorder (or any other kind
of sound recording device) which has "automatic level".
>> Those things have AVC that cannot be disabled, and the
>> inputs are unbalanced, have plug-in-power and are incredibly flaky.
>
> Yes, it's labeled "plug in power". I can't seem to put my hands on the
> manual at the moment, what is plug in power? Some kind of proprietary
> mic system?
"Plug-in power" is a way to provide the small (~5V)
voltage required by most consumer electret condenser
microphones.
http://www.epanorama.net/circuits/microphone_powering.html#plugin
>> Go double-system.
>
> Can you elaborate? Translation "what does that mean...
It means recording the sound on a separate device like a
DAT recorder or an MD recorder, etc.
>> The board will have an XLR balanced output. If you absolutely HAVE
>> to
>> use the shitty camera audio, you will want to run it through an
>> isolation
>> transformer and then a DC blocking cap to get rid of the plug-in
>> power.
>
> Excellent info, though this is beginning to sound like a lot more of a
> PIA than I had anticipated just for making a memorabilia tape for my
> friend. Not sure what my alternative would be to avoid catching all
> the
> ambient house noise other than running the board directly to my cam.
If it is just "a memorabilia tape" use the mic(s) built into the
camcorder and live with it.
>> You will also need to pad it down a LOT, but since those cameras do
>> not
>> have trustworthy metering, it's basically a matter of cranking the
>> pad
>> down until you don't hear it clipping in the phones any more.
>>
>> Radio Shack sells a cable with a 40 dB pad and a blocking cap for
>> just
>> this application. Two RCAs on one end, 1/8" stereo jack on the
>> other.
>
> Okay, maybe sounding a little less like a PIA if there's something
> this
> simple out there already.
>
>> Getting from the XLR to the RCAs is your job, although I would
>> strongly,
>> strongly recommend transformer isolation.
>
> Transformer isolation in the form of...some kind of a box that's made
> to do this?
Something like this....
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Guitar/Effects?sku=150450
> I happen to have a couple of mic pre's that have 1/4" line-in jacks in
> addition to XLR mic in's, I don't suppose these would be useful for
> this?
Probably not. You don't need amplification, you need isolation
and attenuation (the opposite of amplification). The output from
the mixer is many times higher than what you can safely feed into
the mic input of most anything.
>> Note also that the soundboard mix will not be balanced.
>
> I think he's got it on top of some pretty solid barrels that are all
> about the same height and...oh, that's not what you meant...(just
> inserting a little levity folks)
>
>> It will be a
>> mix of everything that _isn't_ naturally loud in the room and needs
>> reinforcement. So there will be no drums in it, for instance. You
>> can
>> use an ambient mike on stage, run that to one channel, then run the
>> PA
>> to a second channel and mix the two in post. Or you can ask the PA
>> guy
>> to make you an audio-for-video mix from an aux buss. If he is busy
>> he
>> may not be willing, though.
>
> Hmm...if something's not going to be in the outputs from the board,
> this is a problem. Just talking about having this cam on a tripod with
> whatever cords need to be run from the board, maybe with the
> attenuator
> or pad doohicky's your were referring to inline. I guess I'll just
> have
> to see how inclined toward helpfulness/knowledgeable this guy is going
> to be.
It really is more difficult to do this properly than you think.
Shoot some test footage in the bar (with whatever group is
playing) and see for yourself. Unless you're prepared to
haul some significant audio equipment down there to connect
to the mixer, add in one or two extra mics (for ambience and
the "acoustic" instruments), and record it on a separate, non-
compressed recorder, just forget it and use the microphones
in the camcorder. You might want to take along some duct
tape to cover the microphones with as many layers as it takes
depending on how head-banging the music is being amplified.
>> But really, really, you want to go double-system if there is any way.
>
> Roger. As soon as I find out what exactly that entails. ;-)
Use a separate recorder and join the audio and video together
while editing the video on a computer. This is regularly discussed
over on news:rec.video.desktop
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