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Posted by Alric Knebel on 07/17/06 01:01
nu-monet v9.0 wrote:
> Alric Knebel wrote:
>
>>Patriotism is a value that's taught by the state...
>
>
> Your extended rant against patriotism was definitely
> taught to you.
Hogwash. I was merely responding to your extended rant FOR it. Your
use of the word "rant" shows that the very subject agitates you, and
suggests to me that you've mixed up nationalism with patriotism, the
very thing you delineated as different on in your last paean.
> For most people, patriotism evolves
> with their on consciousness. First they are focused
> only on the self, and then they see a higher value in
> their family, then their community and region, and
> finally their nation.
>
> But there is no patriotism to the world, anywhere.
> It is superfluous. There is no other habitable world
> that it can be compared to, so there is no vive le
> differance.
That's where you're wrong. There is a patriotism to the world. I just
laid it out to you. I'm not alone. We're the future, my friend. We're
what human beings SHOULD be.
> Though I agree that in any patriotic situation, there
> are those that neither embrace patriotism, nor are
> accepted in kinship by others of their nation. This
> does not mean that they are internationalists, only
> that they are isolated, either intentionally, which
> should be their choice, or prejudicially, which can
> often be unfair, but can also be a reasonable act of
> the majority.
>
> In America, the tiniest amount of patriotism is taught,
> mostly an insistence that honored symbols or ideas be
> respected. This is not to say that they must be
> worshipped, but it is a demand of society that you do
> not defile or loudly scorn that which you do not
> appreciate, but is deeply held by others. It is the
> same demand that an avowed atheist is not permitted to
> defile someone's church because he strongly despises
> all that it stands for. It is not oppressive.
>
> Weirdly enough, there is a strong anti-patriotic
> movement in America, of people who are even ashamed to
> call themselves "Americans", who despise our flag, and
> any other symbol of pride that Americans have. But even
> that is not enough for them. They feel a need to attack
> those that do honor those things.
It's not "anti-patriotic." It's "pro-idealism.' All of that
state-worship stuff has little to do with how good a person is. IT's
just that a lot of people are reaching an awareness of this fact, and it
seems like a movement. But it's a natural evolution in human beings.
There is no one leading the movement.
> It is a strange sickness of the heart, and perhaps the
> head. And yet such people would never leave the US to
> those that appreciate it; they wish to destroy and defile
> it. Again, a strange manner of behavior.
You're as full of shit as a hog pen. We want to change it, make it
better. To people like you who refuse to see it for what it is, it
looks like we're destroying it. But this is how change always is,
between those who see and those resistant to seeing.
> Is it like hatred of your mother? A hatred of one's
> self? A bitterness for never feeling accepted, or of
> having one's anti-patriotic ideas rejected by others?
It's not hatred. It's love, a devotion to real idealism, the hunger to
see the truth, for the betterment or mankind. A commitment to a higher
ideal. It only appears as hatred because your own hatefulness to higher
ideals threatens your narrow perspective.
> But patriotism survives all these things. It is an
> intangible that improves the lives of those who enjoy it,
> and those around them who benefit from its generosity.
Really? What improves people's lives is security and comfort. You
sound like you get your ideas off of Hallmark cards.
> For those who hate it and its trappings there is only
> pity. The pity for the castrato, or for someone who is
> blind and despises sight in others. What misery could
> have twisted the heart so?
That was a lot of hogwash that comes from your deep indoctrination. You
ignored the idealism I espoused that supersedes your pathetically
skittish appreciation of patriotism. As it turns out, you're one of
those dunderheads who mistakes his own nationalism for patriotism, and
you're clearly upset that I presented my views so well. What is so
lacking in your intellectual development that you have to sacrifice real
values and reason to a shallow, ill-formed, ill-informed, national
identity? And what in your spavined soul causes you to embrace the
stingy values of patriotism instead of a value system that regards
humanity as a whole?
For clarity let me state it plainly for you: I'm not anti-patriotic.
I'm just following a higher ideal, which causes me to challenge the
narrow interests of patriotism. Try as you might to paint them as part
of some noble obligation, patriotism is an INFERIOR value in humanity.
It's like adherence to a true religion, and marred and marked by the
true religionist's blindness.
--
______________________________________________
Alric Knebel
http://www.ironeyefortress.com/C-SPAN_loon.html
http://www.ironeyefortress.com
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