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Posted by Frank on 11/09/06 18:21
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 08:14:57 -0600, in 'rec.video.production',
in article <Re: PANASONIC (New) HDC-SD1 & HDC-DX1 H.264 Camcorders
(High Definition)>,
"Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>"Frank" <frank@nojunkmail.humanvalues.net> wrote in message
>news:vbi5l2d4a8gdgghkqvn1tn7d0k7i3hsg86@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:50:03 -0600, in 'rec.video.production',
>> in article <Re: PANASONIC (New) HDC-SD1 & HDC-DX1 H.264 Camcorders
>> (High Definition)>,
>> "Ken Maltby" <kmaltby@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Frank" <frank@nojunkmail.humanvalues.net> wrote in message
>>>news:8185l2ta2vhalvqdces3rkmk0v87nk64ct@4ax.com...
>>>> On 8 Nov 2006 11:09:45 -0800, in 'rec.video.desktop',
>>>> in article <Re: PANASONIC (New) HDC-SD1 & HDC-DX1 H.264 Camcorders
>>>> (High Definition)>,
>>>> jerry@jonesgroup.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>More:
>>>>>
>>>>>http://tinyurl.com/y9sdxt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And for those folks who read the Japanese language, here are three
>>>> additional links:
>>>>
>>>> Panasonic HDC-SD1 and HDC-DX1 (press release of November 8, 2006)
>>>> http://panasonic.co.jp/corp/news/official.data/data.dir/jn061108-2/jn061108-2.html
>>>>
>>>> Panasonic HDC-SD1 (product information)
>>>> http://panasonic.jp/dvc/sd1/
>>>>
>>>> Panasonic HDC-DX1 (product information)
>>>> http://panasonic.jp/dvc/dx1/
>>>>
>>>> The HDC-SD1 records to SD and SDHC flash memory cards while the
>>>> HDC-DX1 records to 8 cm red laser Mini-DVD optical discs.
>>>>
>>>> Note that the maximum data rate supported by these two camcorders is
>>>> only 13 Mbps. That's lower than the maximum data rate of the Sony
>>>> HDR-SR1, which is 15 Mbps, but is slightly higher than that of the
>>>> Sony HDR-UX1, which is 12 Mbps. All of these data rates, however, are
>>>> well below the maximum specified by the AVCHD format, which is 24
>>>> Mbps.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Which is close to Mini-DV and HDV,
>>
>> I'm not sure what you mean by that, Ken. DV, whether recorded to small
>> (Mini) tapes or to large (Standard) tapes is 25 Mbps, 720p HDV is 19.7
>> Mbps, and 1080i HDV is 25 Mbps.
>>
>
> 24 is close to 25, when comparing to 12, 13 and 15.
Agreed, 24 is close to 25.
>> All four of these AVCHD camcorders are 1080i, so the comparison, if
>> it's to be made, should be made to 1080i HDV. The highest currently
>> used AVCHD data rate of 15 Mbps isn't close to 25 Mbps, in my opinion.
>>
> I was saying that the 24Mbps mentioned was "close to Mini-DV and
>HDV", which is 25Mbps. Which is also indicated by the second clause
>of my sentence, below, you so cleverly dissected.
I wasn't trying to be clever. I'm a very straightforward type of
person. I have little time for games. I genuinely did not understand
your statement, so in an attempt to derive an understanding of it, I
looked at it piece by piece. To me, it seemed that you were saying
that the currently-implemented AVCHD data rates were close to the
DV/HDV data rates, which on a pure numeric basis, they aren't,
although H.264/AVC is a much more efficient codec than either DV or
MPEG-2 as implemented in 1080i HDV. Of course, MPEG-2 as implemented
in 1080i HDV is itself a far more efficient codec than DV.
>>> but is there an AVCHD
>>>camera (much less 3CCD AVCHD camera) that will do 24Mbps?
>>
>> The four camcorders mentioned above comprise the *entire universe* of
>> available/announced AVCHD products. Period. There are no others.
>> Someday it might become a decent format, but not yet.
>>
>
> Kinda my point.
You mean that you already knew that there were no 24 Mbps AVCHD
camcorders when you asked the question if there were any 24 Mbps
camcorders? See, I'm confused again, but that's okay.
> But if and when such cameras are available,
>AVCHD at 24Mbps., they would offer a very good format;
>as "jerry" points out.
Yes, "jerry" and his posts. Yesterday I added some brief information
about the two new Panasonic AVCHD camcorders to my HDV Web page and
thought that I was all done. Then at 2:52 AM this friggin' morning he
has to go and post a link to an English language version of the press
release and I, still being up at that hour, have to go back and revise
the page again.
> I've been playing with AVC and it has a much greater potential
>than most see, especially in the seldom addressed HD
>(High Profile-High level) formats. Most people are only seeing
>H264 as something for their i-Pod or cellphone.
Don't forget the Sony PSP (PlayStation Portable). I've spent multiple
weeks of my life encoding video for that thing for a client.
Two or three years from now, assuming that some form of hi-def optical
media becomes popular for Hollywood movie distribution to the masses,
I'll be interested to see which codec - MPEG-2, VC-1, or AVC - is most
frequently used by the studios for encoding.
> Personally, I think a 3CCD, harddrive and SD media, 24Mbps,
>720p, AVCHD camera at a decent price point would be a hot
>seller, and a great buy. The tech. is there, the codec and the
>editing software pose no problems. Who knows the extra
>4Mbps might solve most of the "problem" with HDV.
Personally, I would push for 1080p, not 720p - cost, power
consumption, and heat dissipation problems notwithstanding.
And I think that 35 Mbps XDCAM HD solves the "'problem' with HDV", but
it's not priced for the consumer, nor sized for the consumer, who
often wants a camcorder which will fit in their pocket/purse.
--
Frank, Independent Consultant, New York, NY
[Please remove 'nojunkmail.' from address to reply via e-mail.]
Read Frank's thoughts on HDV at http://www.humanvalues.net/hdv/
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